Hello beautiful souls! World renowned trauma therapist, Dr. Frank Anderson, worked alongside Bessel van der Kolk (author of The Body Keeps Score) for years, only to find he hadn’t worked through his own trauma and that he didn’t know how to allow himself to be loved. Today, he talks about how he came home to himself. In To Be Loved, Dr. Frank Anderson shares his confusing experience of growing up an outsider in a typical, midwestern Italian American home that was – at one turn – fiercely loving but at the same time unaccepting, abusive, and rife with secrets. After enduring six years of therapy as a child in the 1970s, he was programmed to be something that he wasn’t for decades and became driven to create the perfect life- complete with a family, a successful career and a house with white picket fence in the suburbs- until it all fell apart. It was only then that he realized resilience, forgiveness and facing his trauma were the keys to living an authentic life-and finally knowing what it feels like to be loved. I’d love to hear your thoughts about this episode over on Instagram @angelpodcast . . . and THANK YOU for listening!

To learn about Dr. Frank Anderson’s work:
FrankAndersonMD.com
Frank’s book To Be Loved is available at all major book retailers
[IG] @frank_andersonmd
[FB] @mdfrankanderson

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TRANSCRIPT

Julie Jancius: Beautiful souls. Here’s a preview of today’s discussion.

Dr. Frank Anderson: So I went back into therapy again, and that’s where it was like healing a deeper layer of my trauma healing. It was like pre verbal almost. It was very early trauma. It was going on for a long time. And I really was dedicated to not perpetuating, you know, we call this transgenerational trauma.

Julie Jancius: Hello, beautiful souls. You’re listening to the Angels and Awakening podcast. I’m your host and author, Julie Jancius. Did you know that you can listen to this show everywhere podcasts are found? It’s true. Now I have three free gifts just for you. First gift, I give away a new reading each week to a person who’s left a five star positive review of this, then submitted it to me using the contact form@theangelmedium.com. contact I hope I’m calling your number next. Second gift. If you’d like a new daily angel message, join me on Insta at angelpodcast. Third free gift. If you’d like to know the name of one of your guardian angels so that you can work with them even more closely, go to the homepage of my website, theangelmediam.com, and submit your contact info at the very top. I’ll email you back personally with the name of one of your Angels. Okay, as we begin the show, I want you to feel the presence of your Angels surrounding you. And just know that the loving, positive messages you resonate with today are messages for you from your Angels and loved ones on the other side. Hello, beautiful souls. Welcome back to the Angels and Awakening podcast. I’m your host and author, Julie Jancius. And friends, today we have a beautiful story of just hope and love for you to hear. we’ve got Frank G. Anderson on to share his new book, to be loved. Now, you might know, Frank because he’s done a lot of work in the field of trauma therapy. He actually worked, with his longtime associate, Bessel Vander Kolk, which, you know, from the body. Keep score. I know a lot of you have read that book. but Frank, you have this new book called to be loved. And it’s so beautiful, it’s a memoir, because even though you worked in trauma therapy for so long, you had a lot of your own to unpack, 100%.

Dr. Frank Anderson: And I would even say this, I don’t know many people, honestly, who become trauma experts without their own own trauma history, whether they acknowledge it or not. I mean, why would you devote your whole life to something like this if it wasn’t relevant. You know, it took me a while to get there, but, yeah, it’s one of the things that I’m actually really excited about here is I have been doing this work since 1992, really a long time, and I do feel competent and capable and, you know, doing trauma therapy and helping people. But I’m super excited about sharing my own personal story, you know, around my trauma history and the potential for healing that I want people to really resonate with my story in ways that work for them, but also resonate with the. With the real possibility for healing.

Julie Jancius: Amazing. And I have to imagine that doing so many of these interviews for your book that’s coming out, I don’t know if that brings up a lot for you. So I just want to be sensitive to that. And please feel free to go into what you want to and not into what you don’t.

Julie Jancius: Because I know it’s got to be even hard to just write it, let alone keep doing interviews to promote the book.

Julie Jancius: But you start off, oh, did you want to say something there?

Dr. Frank Anderson: I was going to say, like, this is such. It became such a tell all book. Like, I talk about everything in there, right? People are like, is there anything off subject? you know, I’m like, nope, anything goes here. And, you know, what I was going to say is, I just got back from finishing the audiobook in New York last week, so one thing to write it, and it’s a whole other experience to tell the story. So that was really powerful, I have to say, like, saying it out loud, I was like, oh, my God. I was here for every moment. I know what every single word felt like. So it’s interesting. Thank you for saying that. nothing’s off subject here. We can go there. It’s part of the message. It’s part of the message.

Julie Jancius: So I might not look italian, I’ve got the blonde hair from my dad’s side,

00:05:00

Julie Jancius: but you and I, we both grew up in deeply italian households, and families where I, on our side, was very catholic and then Christian, kind of switched over, but very, very heavy on the religious side. And you weren’t. We both weren’t really even allowed to explore our sexualities early on because, of this. But it was also heavily influenced by your dad’s role in the family. And so I wonder if you can kind of talk about your childhood and some of the trauma that brought you to the place of adulthood and kind of fitting yourself into this box.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Totally, 100%. And it’s interesting when the publisher said, we want you to write a memoir. It was kind of a little bit shocking to me. I’m like, hey, I’m a trauma expert. Why would I write a memoir? But I knew instantly what the opening sentence would be. I just had this. Like, it was. Just came up. It was like, you’re not going to school today, Frankie. I just knew it, because that’s really that moment when I walked into my parents bedroom. I was six years old, you know, in first grade. They’re like, you’re not going to school today. I’m like, why? I didn’t understand it. I was a kid. They’re like, we’re taking you to a hospital. I’m like, but why? Like, I’m not sick. To the hospital downtown Chicago. Not the local hospital, right? oh. Something really must be wrong. No, but they never said what was wrong. There was no explanation. So I started out like, oh, my goodness. With secrets and with feeling like something is terribly wrong with me. Right? and so I really. For then I was in. It was psych testing is where I went to downtown Chicago, same place where I went to medical school, which is really bizarre, as a little kid like this. And they did psych testing, and I was in weekly therapy for six years. still, nobody told me what was wrong with me, right? So I. But what I did know was I was wrong and I was bad, and I needed to act differently. That was the message. And my dad was pretty violent, physically and not sexually. Physically and emotionally and verbally, for sure. And I thought, it’s me. Like, the only thing, like, something is terribly wrong with me. He doesn’t treat my brother this way. He didn’t treat my sisters this way. So I really internalized all of that treatment, all the abuse. The therapist came up with a no hitting rule at one point, which was like, it was better. My brother and I got grounded instead of hitting, when we were young. But it wasn’t until later, like, at the end of the therapy, I remember, like, I have very little memories of this therapy. Like, talk about the power of dissociation. I don’t know what went on in those years. I really don’t. But at the end of the therapy, I remember. This is a very vivid memory. two drawers that were like. He had two chair, dresses, dresser drawers. There was, like, a bureau or buffet, a bureau. And opened one, and there was girl toys in it, and the other one had boy toys in it. And I was like, he’s like, we’re playing with these. I’m like, I looked in there and there were, like, battleships and army men, and I was like, I don’t really want to play with those. He’s like, these are what we’re playing with. He just sat there. You have to pick one. And so I remember playing, like, boy toys on the carpeting with him, you know? And so that was probably, like, a sign of something for me at that time. And I was in 6th grade by now. Like, you know, and I remember. I remember looking at my uncles, like, act like that. Like, that’s what a Man is. Like, that’s what you’re supposed to do. And everybody liked my brother more than he liked me. And he was like a rough and tumble guy. So even though nobody said anything, I picked up on these cues like, you’re wrong, you’re bad, and if you want to be loved, you better change who you are. So I really did grow up in a very oppressive environment, you know? And in retrospect now, like, when I talked to my mom about it, she’ll say. She says it was a form of conversion therapy, Frank. Like, we’re doing this to help you be normal. We didn’t know any better because, like, back in the day, that was. It was a disorder to be gay. And what I ended up finding out was they found me. Somebody found me in the basement. Playing with my cousin’s Barbie Playhouse was,

00:10:00

Dr. Frank Anderson: like, sneaking in the back of the basement. I thought it was kind of cool to see a little miniature house and everything like this.

Julie Jancius: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Frank Anderson: And that was, like, bad and wrong. And that’s what sparked this whole adventure to kind of really make me other than I was. So I was real. I did grow up learning how to see what people wanted and do what people expected of me, you know, in hopes that I’ll be good, which just.

Julie Jancius: Seems so crazy to think about. But it wasn’t that long ago.

Dr. Frank Anderson: No, I know, I know. It really wasn’t. It really wasn’t. And, you know, depending on, like, now I live in Boston and LA, so I’m living in these, like, very different environments than what it was in. Like you said, Julie, you said, like, this catholic italian family in Chicago was very conservative, that I grew up in this environment, and it just wasn’t an option. I didn’t even know what gay was. I didn’t even know a gay person, you know? And this is a long time ago, so. And it was a disorder anyways. Do you know what I mean? Even if I was, it was. It was deemed a disorder. So, yeah, it was. It was not the best place for me to be. Me.

Julie Jancius: Yeah, for sure. I’m, having this memory flashback of, you know, my parents had just gotten divorced. It was a crazy, wild wide because we, like, fled from my father in a different state to Chicago, and we only had my grandparents to move into their house, and that was the italian household. And my mom, I was, like, 14 years old, and she’s like, you have to get a promise ring, and I need you to announce in front of the entire family. And those are bigger freaking gatherings, right?

Dr. Frank Anderson: Big gatherings.

Julie Jancius: Big gatherings. I need you to announce in front of the entire family that you’re gonna promise to keep celibate until marriage, which nobody does, which was just absolutely crazy.

Dr. Frank Anderson: So the promise ring was not to get married. It was promised for celibacy before marriage.

Julie Jancius: Yeah. That you would not have sex before marriage. Yes. So. And, like. But, I don’t know. So that was just kind of coming up. And I love my mother. She’s absolutely wonderful. she’s a wonderful italian lady that I can find anywhere, wearing jewel because she’s just so loud. Are you here talking to somebody? But she’s just adorable. but that was hard. And so I totally get the environment, and reading your book just really took me back. Ready for a little getaway that completely resets your energy? We’re hosting a live, in person spiritual retreat called a whole new you. It’s the weekend of October 4 in Oakbrook, Illinois. This spiritual retreat is all about your own personal healing and growth, reconnecting with yourself, learning to connect with your Angels. And I’m going to talk about all new Angels that I’ve never talked about anywhere before. And you’re going to leave with more personal peace, purpose, clarity, and confidence than ever before. Learn more and see the itinerary@theangelmedium.com. retreat that’s theangelmedium.com retreat. Links are in the show notes and friend, I cannot wait to meet you and hug you in person. But we can grow up in a way where a lot of us weren’t allowed to explore our sexuality at all.

Dr. Frank Anderson: That’s right. And, you know, the thing I love about what we’re talking about is well intended parents. I kind of want to highlight that. Like, my dad was abusive, for sure, and that was the book talks about the unfolding of that and the process of healing around that and how that now I know was about him and not about me. But, both my parents were well intended in the decisions that they made at the time. Like, my mom was very clear. She’s like, frankie, we wanted what was best for you. And, you know, my uncle’s a doctor, and he told them this is the best way to help him. So even these decisions that were really harmful were well intended, and I can understand that. Do you know what I mean? I can really hold. Now. I can hold the complexity of that. As a kid, I could not, for.

Julie Jancius: Sure even, like,

00:15:00

Julie Jancius: I get it with, like, the. The ring, you know, she just probably didn’t want me to get pregnant before.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Your life is going to be messed up if you get pregnant. So you promised me and every one of our family. Yes, yes.

Julie Jancius: I just try to keep me in a straight line. not like I was that bad. I was so just, like, in a straight line to begin with, but, nonetheless. So you grow up, you go to school, you go to medical school, you get this degree. You’re studying with people who are just world renowned experts. You’re a world renowned expert, and you decide the picket fence life is the way to go, and you start building this life.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s interesting. I always love kids. I’ve always loved kids. From a young age, I used to love babysitting as a teenage boy. You know, people. The people in the neighborhood loved having me babysit because they’re like. It was. If they had boys, they wanted a boy babysitter because I would play with them and we’d have fun. You know, it was like. It was so I had. I always babysat, and I loved babysitting. That was always fun thing for me to do. And I knew I wanted to have children. Like, my dad was a pharmacist. I thought I was gonna be a pharmacist, just like him, and take over the family business, all that kind of stuff. But even when I decided to not pursue pharmacy because I wanted to be a doctor, my first inkling was, I’m going to be a pediatrician. Of course I am. Like, I love kids. So this idea of really loving kids, actualizing that life. I married a woman. She was a doctor. She was a pediatrician. It was like, hello. It was the perfect experience of that. And the white picket fence. We bought a house. It had white picket fence. It was across from a park. Do you know what I mean? I, like, did everything in my power to kind of create. I didn’t know I was trying to create the family that I wished I had. At the time, I wasn’t aware of that, but I knew I loved kids. And what was interesting was when I was in medical school, I had a rotation in pediatrics because you rotate through all the different specialties, and I wouldn’t be a pediatrician after that rotation because I saw these kids who were so sick and in so much pain, and it just broke my heart. Like, I was, like. It was, like, too close to home of my own, like, unresolved pain and trauma at the point, I didn’t know that, but I was like, I can’t work with kids in pain. I remember being in the PICU, the pediatric intensive care unit.

Julie Jancius: Very familiar with it from our kiddo being in there.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Yeah, it was devastating for me.

Julie Jancius: It’s devastating.

Dr. Frank Anderson: I couldn’t handle it, so I switched. There was a close family member who had mental illness, and that touched me deeply, too, but I couldn’t. It was like the pediatrician thing was too close for home. So I switched into psychiatry and then realized, oh, this is a self healing journey also. It’s nice to help people, but it was also unconsciously connecting to my own trauma and wanting to heal it.

Julie Jancius: So you are an expert in trauma, and you’re in this life that you’ve built, and you have two beautiful kids, right?

Dr. Frank Anderson: Yeah.

Julie Jancius: And then you start to look inward at your own trauma, and this is where the memoir really starts to unfold.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Yeah.

Julie Jancius: Tell, us, like, what was the switch or what was the catalyst that kind of helped this unfold? And then I think trauma is just so complex. Right. And every situation is so different.

Dr. Frank Anderson: That’s right.

Julie Jancius: But how did yours unfold?

Dr. Frank Anderson: Yes, it really went in stages. So, like, the first, when I was in my residency, in psychiatry, I was working with all these people who had chronic mental illness, and that was devastating and overwhelming for me, and that shot me into therapy. So I got one into therapy then, in my residency in my early mid twenties, and started uncovering my trauma history for sure, and was able to come out. So it was a point for me at that point where I was like, okay, I am gay. I divorced my wife, talk, you know, and came out, so. And at that point, I kind of was like, gosh, I’m good. Okay. Like, it was a very difficult. I was 32 years old when that, when I came out, so it took me a long time. But I was like, I’m okay now. And I really thought, like, say happily ever after. Here we go. I met this Man who’s really

00:20:00

Dr. Frank Anderson: a lovely, kind human, and I wanted kids. So I’m like, you know, okay, I’m going to be gay and have kids. Like, I’m gonna do it like I’m a trailblazer. I really kind of felt that. Right? It was like my mom used to say, you can do anything you want, Frankie, when you grow up. And I’m like, okay, I’m gonna do it then. So I started having, you know, we looked into the surrogacy process for having kids. We had our first son, who was just a joy and so much. I loved him so much. I was so into, like, was like, my husband was like, oh, my God, I feel so marginalized. You’re so into having these kids. Like, it was, like, really something. And then we had another kid, and then my childhood trauma came up at a deeper level. This is when, like, I had done a bunch of therapy.

Julie Jancius: Hm.

Dr. Frank Anderson: I was in a healthy, loving relationship. We had children. It looked on the surface like I had the perfect life from my perspective. And I started getting reactive and yelling at the kids. Never really hit them, but they would trigger me. And I didn’t realize it at the time. Like, they were two boys being boys. Throwing toys at each other, yelling and screaming and fighting. It terrified a place inside of me. It was like, oh, my goodness, that violence would have gotten me beaten when I was a kid. So I would stop their violence. And I use violence in quotes because they were just being normal boys. But to me, it felt like violence. And so I would stop that. Don’t hit each other. Like, I would do all this stuff. And then I was like, oh, my gosh, I’m becoming my father to my sons. Like, it was such a horrible realization, and I’m a trauma expert, and yet I’m still doing this, right. It was so painful for me. And that’s why I shot myself into therapy again. I was like, I. I’ll tell you honestly, Julie, that’s when I was. That’s when I was suicidal. Honestly. It’s like I, would rather kill myself than do to my sons what happened to me growing up, you know what I mean? It was that powerful for me in that way. So I went back into therapy again, and that’s where it was, like, healing a deeper layer of my trauma. Healing. It was like pre verbal almost. It was very early trauma. It was going on for a long time. And I really was dedicated to not perpetuating, we call this transgenerational trauma. And I was so committed to not perpetuating this. And that’s where things. I really healed so much. I released so much of what I was carrying in my body. Bessel’s book, the body keeps the score, really is that, really transformed my life such that I didn’t perpetuate with my kids. And I felt good about that. So I thought was the next layer. I was like, wow, wow, I’m here. I did it. And then is my dad started failing and he got sick and I started coming in to help him. one of the things that, was shocking to me was another layer of healing with him, you know, towards the end of his life, which I didn’t expect at all. Like, every time something came up, I was like, I’m going to do this. Like, I am not going to perpetuate this. The healing that happened with my dad at the end of his life was a total shocker for me. I wasn’t looking for it. It was surprising. I didn’t think healing at that level was possible, even after all the therapy I did.

Julie Jancius: Well, he got sick really fast. Right. And you were called in to Chicagoland where you’re from. talk about that healing, because I think that that really brings it full circle and gives people so much hope.

Dr. Frank Anderson: That’s right, yeah. Because I had, like I said, I had done enough work. You know, I had a good family. life was good. We had pretty good relationships with my family. Like, they accepted my husband, they accept loved our kids. So once a year, we’d go in and visit them. You know, it’s just like typical coming from Boston, you know, be Christmas or New Year’s or sometime. But for me with my dad, it was always, like, cordial and superficial. It was always cordial. Like we. Well, we were, we were well behaved. My mom would always try to, like, get us to talk to each other. Here’s your father put. You know, she. I call and she’s like, talk to your father. You know, like, she’d always be like, pushing us to kind of heal the relationship because it was always strained between us. She knew it. Everybody knew it. And so when he got sick, and my sisters, who were primarily taking care of him with my mom, like,

00:25:00

Dr. Frank Anderson: Frank, we need your help. Frank, we need your help. So I started flying in and had this incredible process with him around healing and forgiveness that I never expected. Right? Like, forgiveness. And what ended up happening for me was I didn’t realize this as I healed a lot of my trauma. I never felt love from him. I never felt love from him, and I never felt love for him. So it was like, is this as good as it gets? That’s kind of what I felt like. Is this as far as you can go like, you don’t have PTSD, have a trauma. You have a good life. You have two kids. You have a nice marriage. Like, is this as good as a cat? Is kind of what I was feeling. And so I was really taken off guard when towards the end of my dad’s life, and he really became sickly. He, you know, it was like, 120 pounds, and it was kind of like his defenses all broke down, is what it felt like. It really did. His defenses all broke down. And, like, when I would go home, my sisters and my mother would say, frank, he hasn’t eaten in days. When you’re here, he eats food. Frank, he hasn’t taken a shower in forever. When you’re here, he takes a shower. Like, there was something about I was almost, like, injecting life into him when I would come home. And I think, in retrospect, I think he knew he was dying, and I think he was hopeful for some kind of reconciliation. Honestly, I really do. In retrospect, you know, I remember this one moment, I flew in, and my mom, like, hadn’t been to the hairdresser in three weeks. She’s like, like, go to the hairdresser, mom. I can’t leave him. I can’t leave him. I’m like, that’s why I’m here. Go.

Julie Jancius: Yeah.

Dr. Frank Anderson: And, boy, it was an amazing conversation. This kind of started our healing. He was on the couch, like, dozing in and out, and, he started reviewing his life, and he wouldn’t, like, he couldn’t talk to my mother about dying because she couldn’t tolerate it. My sisters were freaked out, and he just started reviewing his life, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I’m here to help my dad die. Like, I’m here to help him transition. That’s what it felt. Frank. And he would remember this. Frank, and don’t you remember this? And we’re so much alike here. And, you know, and I was. I had done enough work, Julie, in my own life to be like, I didn’t need to prove anything. I didn’t need to contradict anything. I just was there for him in his transition, you know? And it felt good. I was like, I had compassion for him. I was like, I feel compassion for this Man, and I want to help him. I want to help him transition. So that felt good. Like, you know, to carry hate or anger or resentment around for many years is a heavy energy to carry.

Julie Jancius: Oh, for sure.

Dr. Frank Anderson: So for me to start shifting my feelings towards him was such a welcome gift. Like, I was just so happy to not be feeling the anger and resentment and to feel, like, compassion for him, that was the best word because I felt it. And then, like, the last words he said to me, I won’t kind of get into the details, but it was a moment that I will never forget. It was a moment that transformed my life and transformed my life with him to the point that we have a great relationship now. We have a great relationship now. And I feel so lucky. I talk about this, the freedom of loving someone who has harmed you is really powerful. and I got to that place, and I didn’t expect to get to that place, and I’m so grateful that I was able to get there.

Julie Jancius: That’s amazing. That’s amazing.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Yeah.

Julie Jancius: When it comes to got so many different places I want to go next, there’s so much. I think there’s so much that you probably learned as you were writing this book about trauma itself and looking at this in such detail, because when you’re authoring a book, I mean, you’re just going through every moment of time and feeling and thought and processing on a deep level. And like we said before, everybody’s trauma is so complex. I think the biggest thing that I see within the spiritual community are that people do work on themselves to your parent before, and they get to a point where something comes up, but instead of thinking, okay, this is just another time that I need to step back into therapy and do my work, they instead feel they’re bad or they’re wrong, and that the therapy that they did before didn’t work. And it was like, not. And.

00:30:00

Julie Jancius: And it’s like, no, we are in a constant, lifelong situation here of, unpacking, things. talk to those folks 100%.

Dr. Frank Anderson: And, you know, like, if I’m a therapist, I’ve been in therapy for 30 years. Like, that kind of says therapy’s not so effective. Like, if you need to do it for 30 years, buddy, like, what’s your problem? Right? You know what I mean? But, no, it’s not that at all. I don’t see it like that. You know, and I used to. And the other thing I used to believe is that there’s such a thing as permanent healing. I don’t see that anymore, and I don’t experience it. It’s what you were referencing. It’s a constant evolution. It’s a constant unpacking. I will never be done healing, but the stuff that I’ve worked on doesn’t show up in the same way. It doesn’t show up with the same intensity. I’m not reliving things in the way I used to relive. It’s like a different dimension shows up every time it gets reactivated. So it’s not that you’re stuck, and it just keeps happening over and over again. I mean, sometimes we repeat our trauma when we don’t heal it for sure. Right? That can happen. Right. But. But when you do the work, if something comes up, it’s different. It’s a. It’s a new dimension you’re learning about. You know, I just recently. I’ll tell you, I just recently had this pretty important conversation with my mom, around the struggle that she’s having with the book and the memoir. Right? So her and I are in this process of working through that right now. And what I’m doing, instead of getting angry or pissed off or anything, I’m like, I want to hold love and compassion for someone who’s in a different state as me. like, she’s in a different state. She’s a mourning widow, and she’s, totally attached to my father, and she can’t really acknowledge what he did to me and still love him. So she’s in this place right now, and, you know, I’m just like, I’m going to love her. I’m going to stay centered and grounded and compassionate and be with her in her journey. Not again needing to defend myself or tell her this is true and what you’re saying, I just. I’m really learning to be loving to someone who can piss you off or can be harmful or can, you know, not see your view, not agree with your view. And, it feels empowering to be able to do that.

Julie Jancius: It really does, 100%.

Dr. Frank Anderson: It’s not easy, but I’m working. This is the layer that this is like. It feels like this is the dimension I’m working on right now. Do you know what I mean?

Julie Jancius: For sure. For sure. Well, I felt that dimension, but I really want people to hone in on what you said before. It’s not like one or the other. When you go through healing, it is lifelong, and you couldn’t do the healing that you’re doing today without having done the healing that you did in the past.

Dr. Frank Anderson: I kind of. It’s like. It’s almost like the rungs of a ladder. That’s what it feels like to me. It’s like. I almost feel like I’m reaching different energetic light layers and levels. That’s what it feels like to me. each time I release a layer, I take one more step up the ladder, and I’m in a different vibration, I’m in a different energy, and then something comes up, and I’ll work on that, and then I raise my vibration, and I’m at a different level. So that. And, you know, it’s not a judgment of my levels better than yours, because it’s not a comparison. It’s more like an energetic elevation. Each time I take advantage of a moment and learn and grow from it and heal. So it’s. It is an evolution. That’s my experience of it. You know, I used to think, oh, my God, I made it.

Julie Jancius: Yeah.

Dr. Frank Anderson: And then shit comes up again. Right? I was like, I didn’t make it. But I’m also not where I was before either.

Julie Jancius: 100%. So you and Bessel have done this work for so long, and I think it’s some of the most spiritual work as well. And I wonder if you can talk about trauma work and how it ties in to our spiritual center.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Yeah. And I have to tell you, as, like a Harvard trained doctor, a spirituality was not, not one of my courses. not one of my courses. So this is something that I loved learning over time, is the spiritual dimensions to trauma healing. And I think it’s hard to do this work without spiritual dimension, honestly now, because there’s so much. Here’s my perspective. Like,

00:35:00

Dr. Frank Anderson: we. I believe we all are connected to Source energy, God, love, whatever, oneness, whatever you, whatever people call it, right? And I think we come in human, we come down here in human form to have an experience, to learn and grow as a Soul. Like, this is what I hold. And. And I think part of that experience is to go through adversity. I m think trauma is not abnormal. I actually think trauma is part of the normal.

Dr. Frank Anderson: And I think we have choice and free will to repress it, to repeat it, or to repair it and evolve from it. So I want people to think about, take advantage of every moment. And sometimes we’re healing in our human form. Sometimes healing requires accessing the spiritual. I spend a lot of time now accessing the spiritual as an aid in my own healing journey and also in my work with my clients. Right. There’s energy for me. I’m very sensitive to energy. A lot of trauma survivors are very sensitive to energy. And I’m sensitive to energy. And I’m constantly calling in the highest level of love that I can, that can show up for me to help my clients heal or to help me heal. So I really access a lot of wisdom that comes from beyond me, in a way to heal trauma. And I could feel it. Like, it’s a physical vibration. I, like, feel this energy moving through me. Right. when I was writing this memoir, part of me is like, sometimes I read, sections of it and I tear up. I’m like, God, that’s beautiful. Who wrote that?

Julie Jancius: You channeled it all.

Dr. Frank Anderson: I totally channeled it. I absolutely channeled it. There was a period of time for about four months last fall. I would get up at 03:00 in the morning. I’m wide awake. Just wide awake. And I go get to the kitchen table. I’d be just. Stuff would be pouring through me, and I’d be like, oh, my God, that’s brilliant. Holy cow. Where did that come from? Like, it was channeling through me. And it would be like, 09:00. The kids would be. Have been off at school, and I had to start my work day with all my clients, right? But I didn’t. Wasn’t tired, and I was really. It was this message. This book is my story, but a larger message, and I’m very aware of that. Like, this. This is a message that is accessed by. Accessed through me by spirit m. Because really, I did, you know, it’s very revealing. It is my story, but it’s universal trauma experience and the capacity for trauma healing. And I kind of feel like. And just the messenger here. That’s what it feels like.

Julie Jancius: Absolutely. I totally feel that, too. I have to ask, do you get signs from your dad still? Do you feel, like. Totally.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Oh, my goodness. I get sick.

Julie Jancius: Do you feel like you have a better relationship with him now than ever before?

Dr. Frank Anderson: So there was this whole dilemma around the eulogy. My mother wanted me to do the eulogy, and I was like, I don’t want. Ah. At that time, I was like, I don’t want to do the eulogy. I speak in front of crowds all the time. It makes sense for me. But I didn’t feel complete enough in my love for him to do it justice. And I didn’t want to do something fake. So I kind of did this whole thing around. I talked. I have a woman that I talked to every month, my spiritual person. And I was, like, talking. I was like, I’m like, ellen, I need a session. Ellen, I need a session. And I’ll tell you, I’ll show you the COVID of the book. But you. What you saw, like, what ended up happening in this session with her. and this was after he died. She’s like, he’s here, and he’s with you, and he’s apologizing and he’s sorry for what he did, and he’s asking you for forgiveness, and it’s as if he’s sending stars of love down from the sky to you. Right. M and when the artist came up with this design cover of stars in the sky, I was like, that’s.

Julie Jancius: You didn’t even know this story?

Dr. Frank Anderson: No, no.

Julie Jancius: Like, I was like, total sign from dad. Yes, total.

Dr. Frank Anderson: I was like, that’s it. Boom. you know, like, I just knew it instantly. Stars from the sky. And I was like, this is our book. It’s not just my book. Like, this is our book, right?

Julie Jancius: It

00:40:00

Julie Jancius: looks like handwriting. Like, if you look at this book and the sky, because I’ve been around graphic design for forever, the typography that people use and the font. This, isn’t like anything I’ve ever seen before. It looks like he’s writing in the sky to be loved.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Exactly, exactly. So as soon as that showed up, right, I was just. I knew it, I knew it. It was one of those things, like, for me, signs and messages land differently. Like, there’s a different quality to them. It’s. It’s a knowing in a different way. I did a keynote recently, and, I can feel it now as we’re speaking. Like, get chills from my body. Like, my mom wanted my brother and I to have something of my dad, so she gave us both one of his watches, and he has a really small wrist, which I never knew, but I was like, I’m going to wear his watch when I do this keynote, you know? And so I put on his watch and I prepared for this keynote address, like, those 1400 people there. Like, I did a lot of work to compare, prepare for this. And I was like, I just, like, was in the green room and I was like, dad, help me represent our story. Just like, help me represent our story. And I felt his presence. I got up on the stage and I was going to do this opening thing. I said none of it. I just, like, was. I was just, like, kind of taken over. And I was like, oh, And I even looked, I was like, all right, we’re going to go there. I kind of looked up. Like there was. I just was, like, taken over. I mean, the message was beautiful. People gave me a standing ovation, which is kind of unusual. And, you know, big keynote addresses like this, but it was, it was such a. I really felt his presence and I knew that I was speaking on our behalf. Like, I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for him.

Julie Jancius: Amazing. Amazing.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Right? So I feel him, and I knew. I kind of knew. We get along better when I’m in human form and he’s not. I just had this feeling, and I have a lot. I love my relationship with my father now. I really do.

Julie Jancius: Yeah, that’s so wild, because that’s actually the reason that I started my podcast. My dad and I weren’t talking. We were estranged at the time when he passed. And, I feel like he’s a bridge. I feel like he’s a bridge from the other side, connecting m me more clearly to my soul’s purpose and together. I see that all the time in my work is that souls on the other side who were here on earth but passed to the other side still have work that they want to do here. And I believe that 111% that they’re working through us to fulfill their legacy as well.

Dr. Frank Anderson: You know what was surprising to me? Like, totally. I agree with you 100%. That’s totally been my experience. One of the things that happened through my spiritual work, which I didn’t expect, was the impact we can also have on souls on the other side.

Julie Jancius: talk about that.

Dr. Frank Anderson: I was really aware of the impact. My father sending stars down from the sky. Totally felt it. I burst into tears. I’ve had chills all over my body, but over at the time. And, you know, through my calls with this woman, she was like, two things I’ll share with you. She’s like, he’s needing something from you. He’s asking you for forgiveness. He’s asking you to release him from what he’s done. He’s sorry. And I was like, oh, okay. I need to forgive him. I need to forgive him. Not. It was because I had already received a lot. Like, I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have done this. You know, I received an apology, but I hadn’t wholeheartedly forgiven him. And I did through that. I was. I did through that process. I was like, all right, I’m going to let go of this. We. I know he loves me. I feel it, and I feel love for him. I don’t need to carry this anymore. Right. And I let. I really forgave him. And then the next time I met with this woman, she’s like, he’s so much lighter. He’s not caring as much. He really appreciates what you’ve done for him.

Julie Jancius: Yeah.

Dr. Frank Anderson: And I was, like, touched by that. Like, I was like, yes, I definitely know people who transition have an effect on us, but I was like, this is, you know, spiritual relationships are relationships.

00:45:00

Dr. Frank Anderson: They’re two sided. And it was really helpful for me to see the impact I had on him also, because it’s a mutual kind of thing. It’s not a one sided thing, is what I’ve learned. Right. It’s an. It’s a. It’s really a relationship, even if it’s in human form and, you know, non.

Julie Jancius: Human form 100% when it comes to that. I think it happens because we can wait until we pass to give them and work out our stuff, which is going to happen in our transition process to the other side or that process, of healing and forgiving. Now, does something that actually brings something through to us as a gift in this life where we can work more closely, you know, I had a session with a woman one time, and I had never seen this before. So when I do a session with somebody, I see a horseshoe ring behind them, and I see their Angels and loved ones behind them.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Yes.

Julie Jancius: And normally, if somebody stands outside of the circle, they’re a friend who checks in, but not a family member. But there is this dad who is standing way in the distance. And I was like, what? What is this? And I had talked to the dad, and I was working on this woman, and, he’s like, you can’t bring me through. Like, I kept seeing this big x. So I got to the end and I said, is there anybody that you wanted to hear from that you didn’t hear from? And she goes, well, I really wanted to hear from my dad, but I told him in the car, I’m so mad at him that I really don’t want to hear from him. And so there he was. I mean, he was honoring that and respecting that and off to the side. So when we do tell them that as our human being selves, we push them off to the distance and kind of, in a way, kick them off of our spirit team.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Totally. Totally. That’s exactly right. And that, that two sided awareness, I think, is really important for people because that was new information for me. Like, it’s. This is a given and received. This is a two way street here, right? Yeah. No, I love that he’s with me on, this book tour. I love that he’s with me. I know he wants me to help my mother. My sister’s struggling. He wants me to help her. Like, I can just feel that, and I’m like, yeah, I can honor that. Yeah, it’s, you know, I will do that.

Julie Jancius: All right. So there was so much that you were able to work through in this lifetime and get to that point before he passed. My last question is not everybody has done all of that work to get to that place with somebody by the end of their life, nor maybe has somebody on the receiving end done all of their work. And, I’m not a spiritual practitioner who believes that there are two sides to every story. Like, I don’t believe that you as a child, Frank, did anything to bring this upon yourself.

Dr. Frank Anderson: I agree.

Julie Jancius: sometimes in life there are just people who are not safe people for us. How do you know when you’re ready to engage with a person and try, when you know that person is not a safe person for you?

Dr. Frank Anderson: Yeah. So engage in reconciliation or even engage in relationship. What are you referring to?

Julie Jancius: engage in trying to have any relationship.

Dr. Frank Anderson: So this is the thing that, you know, for me, I don’t like, I was so grateful. It was a gift for me to have those experiences and to have the full completion of, I call it forgiveness after trauma healing. Like heal your trauma first, then work on the relationship with the person who harmed you second. Like, that’s the way I really think about it because a lot of people do it prematurely. But, if you’re going to heal your relationship with someone, for me, it’s more about what you’re holding and what you’re willing to release.

Dr. Frank Anderson: You don’t need the other person to be able to do that. Some people don’t have the interest or the capacity, honestly, to work it through. Okay. They don’t have the interest or the capacity. I don’t think my dad had the capacity in human form. I don’t think he really did. I think he was limited, and I can accept that now easier. So there’s something that you’re attached to that you need to explore because you know, people can throw shade at you and if it doesn’t affect you, it doesn’t. Like, I get it. You hold that, Uncle Johnny. I know

00:50:00

Dr. Frank Anderson: you feel that way. I feel differently. Like there’s differentiation and there’s acceptance of difference when we’re not holding something, towards the other person. So it’s what we’re carrying relative to the other person. Because there’s people you also who can be jerks and you’re like your problem, not mine. They don’t affect you because there’s nothing hooked. There’s nothing that you’ve been hooked in. Does that make sense? yes. Yes, it does, Frank. Yes.

Julie Jancius: More work, more counseling? Yes, yes.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Are you sure that’s what it is.

Julie Jancius: Amazing, Frank, your book is just amazing to be loved. A memoir, a story of truth, trauma and transformation. Where can everybody find you and the book? And we’ll put it all in the show notes below.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Yes. Beautiful. Yeah. So, you can find me on my website and all my social media channels as it is these days. Right? frankandersonmd.com. you can buy my book on my website. you can go to all my social media handles there. All the workshops that I’m doing, the courses that I have. All of my book now is going to be out, you know, may 7, and it’s at all bookstores, apparently. I’m excited to see it in the airport and, Target and all the places. It’s certainly on Amazon, if people want to get it there. But yeah, I mean, I think we’re a collection of healers that need to work together collectively, and so the more we do this together, the better off the world’s going to be.

Julie Jancius: Completely agreed. Thank you for being you, Frank.

Dr. Frank Anderson: Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for doing what you’re doing, because again, we all have to do it together. We can’t do it alone.

Julie Jancius: 100%. Oh, thank you. Friends, I need your help reaching as many people as possible. If you’d like to support this podcast and help us spread more hope to the world, please book a session with me, join my angel membership, or take my angel Reiki school. What’s the difference? If you’d like to know what messages your Angels and loved ones have for you, you’ll want to book a session with me. The angel membership is all about your own personal spiritual healing. The membership takes you on a spiritual journey that teaches you how to create your own heaven on earth. And the Angel Reiki school is for those who want to get certified in mediumship, angel messages and energy healing all at once. These are three ways you can help us share a message of hope and love with more people than ever before. Register for one or all three at, ah, theangelmedium.com. that’s theangelmedium.com dot. Now let’s pray together. As we do. I want you to pray in a way where you feel as though everything you want for yourself and the world has already come true and you’re giving thanks. Why? Because this is the best way to manifest. So let’s begin. God, Universe Source thank you. We’re so grateful that you’ve blessed this world with calm and peace for all this calm and peace has spread like ripples soothing the hearts of every Soul. Thank you for opening our hearts to abundance, allowing each of us to live our, most authentic life and helping us to create our own heaven on earth. We thank you for the love and deep heart to heart connection that surrounds us every day in our relationships. We thank you for the abundance of health and aliveness we feel radiating from every cell in our and our families bodies. Thank you for the gift of walking this life with us and guiding us every step of the way through your messages. We hear you through our own intuition and we feel you walking right by our sides and we overflow with gratitude. Thank you for financial abundance and abundance of opportunities and miracles, blessings and prosperity in every way. We know that you want us to succeed so that we can show others how you want them to succeed too. Thank you for the boundless love, kindness, Empathy and compassion that binds us all together. Thank you for the laughter, fun moments of pure delight that fill us every day, especially today. God Universe Source thank you for blessing us beyond measure and allowing us to use our souls

00:55:00

Julie Jancius: gifts, talents, skills and abilities to serve the world. We love you. I love you. And in this we pray. Amen. Friends, we’re working on some pretty major things over here and if you wouldn’t mind saying a little prayer that these things come to fruition, if they’re God’s will, we’d so appreciate it. And please add a little prayer in for any specific thing you need right now too. Have a beautiful, blessed day and don’t forget to submit your contact info@theangelmedium.com. dot if you’d like me to channel the name of one of your your Angels for you, sending you peace, bliss and many blessings.