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The Ultimate Guide For Empathic and Highly Sensitive People – with Dr. Judith Orloff

Guest Interview

Hello beautiful souls! Has anyone ever told you you’re too sensitive? I know, me too! Being an empath can be difficult to navigate because we believe everyone else is like us and experiences life in the same way that we do . . . But they don’t. Empaths have to learn different tools and skills for navigating parts of life that others find so simple. This episode is laced with one tool after another to help you feel not alone, and help you learn how to see your empathy as part of your genius!

To learn more about Judith Orloff MD and her work:
Her book The Genius of Empathy will be available at all major book retailers


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Julie Jancius: Beautiful souls. Here’s a preview of today’s discussion.

Judith Orloff: That’s the nature of this earth school here is that we have a lot to learn here. And sometimes it’s really hard. Sometimes it’s a joy and it’s just a delight. But sometimes it’s just really hard. And so you need to show yourself self empathy at that point. And ironically, it so much easier to show empathy to others than to yourself.

Julie Jancius: Beautiful soul, have you ever wanted to speak to angels? Do you believe Angels can support you in your daily life? If this is you, go to my website homepage, theangelmedium.com and sign up for my weekly angel message email. As a gift for signing up, I’m giving you access to free resources, including 31 healing meditations that if you do daily, are going to help you hear your Angels and your own intuition more clearly. Start using these today and you’ll see changes in 31 days. Now take a deep breath. Feel the presence of your Angels as they fill you with love, joy, peace, bliss and ease. And remember, your Angels say the messages that resonate with you in today’s episode are meant just for you.

Julie Jancius: Hello, beautiful souls. Welcome back to the Angels and Awakening podcast. I’m your host and author, Julie Jancius. Friends, if you are in the spiritual community, you have heard this name before. She’s Dr. Judith Orloff. She’s amazing. She’s written so many different books about empathy. And if you are a highly empathic person, highly sensitive person, you know how much her work has just helped and touched your heart. Dr. Judith thank you so much for being here.

Judith Orloff: You’re very welcome.

Julie Jancius: So you have a new book. It’s called, the Genius of Empathy. Practical skills to heal your sensitive self, your relationships and the world. I want to start here because as an empathic person, it was my perspective that everybody was the way that I am. And I was on a walk one day with a friend and I was like, okay, I’m feeling so much of this. I’ve got this going on and it pulls into my heart chakra, like an elephant is sitting on my chest. It’s the one part of my body that it just sweeps in every single time. And my friend was feeling so much in her life, just going through such a stressful time. So I go to her, where do you feel this in your body? All your stress? And she goes, I don’t. I think it, but I don’t feel it within my body. Why is it that some of us feel it so deeply? It aches, it pains, it’s heavy in there, and some people don’t have that.

Judith Orloff: Yeah. well, for those of you who don’t know me, I’m a psychiatrist, and I have, 14 years of traditional medical training at USC and UCLA. And I’m also an empath. So I combine my traditional medical skills with these beautiful gifts of abilities called empathy. And being an empath, that has its own gifts and challenges. All right, other people, and this is hard sometimes for empaths to get. And I stress this in the genius of empathy. Other people don’t experience empathy as we do, all right? They just don’t. They have other ways of experiencing it, such as cognitive empathy. They might feel it in their minds and think, oh, I’m so sorry this is happening to you. But they would never describe the experience of you, what, you just described, of feeling it all in your heart so much. But I’ve got to say that I’m also like you. But in order for me to survive, in order for me to see patients and write books and go out and give talks, I have to observe, not absorb, which is one of the main principles in the book. Observe, whatever it is, but don’t absorb it. Empaths are natural human sponges, emotional sponges. And so when you tune into the world events and so much that’s happening with the personalities, with the war, with all the craziness that’s going on now, it is. You had asked me earlier, it is a lot heavier than normal. There’s always a heaviness on earth, but it’s a lot for empaths to deal with and so to protect myself, and it’s a practice that I use is to take a breath and to come into my own body and my center and the, dante point, which is the martial arts point two inches below the belly button, to feel your power, as opposed to being blown in a million directions by these wild energies. So it’s a practice. It’s a discipline, and it helps you to know that. It doesn’t help anybody else to absorb all that energy like an empath Emotional sponge. It doesn’t help your friend who’s going through this horrible breakup or a, relative is going through some health challenge. It doesn’t help them that you’re feeling the misery of that in your own body, though I understand why you would do that. Part of– In the genius of empathy, it’s how can you be an empowered empath? How can you show empathy and not always be so on guard of feeling too much and absorbing too much and being hurt and taking on too much. In a way, it requires a, knowledge that you’re not being more compassionate by taking on other people’s stuff. I don’t know how you were brought up, but oftentimes in early religious upbringing, you’re taught that to be compassionate, or just early upbringing, you have to absorb it. It’s your job to take on the pain, your job to be on call 24 hours for other people, because that’s what a compassionate person is. And I challenge that. I would not be able to survive as an empath if I did that all the time. I tend to do it because it’s my natural tendency to want to, oh, give it to me. But, I have too much to do, honestly, that I want to accomplish in this lifetime that I’m here, that I’ve had to learn how to set boundaries. How hard is it to set a boundary? It is sometimes really hard. But you have to do it, and you have to do it in a way where you’re calm. So, anyways, we can talk about these things. but yes, empaths are emotional sponges with big loving hearts. And you want to take on all the pain away from everybody in the world, and I do too, but you can’t. So you have to accept that.

Julie Jancius: So let’s talk about the gifts and the challenges of being an empath. Maybe you can dive into a bit of both of those.

Judith Orloff: The gifts are so beautiful. You’re intuitive, you’re sensitive, you’re open to nature, and you love animals, love plants, just love, connecting to people, maybe more one to one or small groups than in large groups. And, you love to give. You love to be of service. You wear an invisible sign around you that says, I can help people. So people often gravitate towards you. So you have all that. But then the challenges are you want to take on everybody’s stuff. you feel it’s your job to do that. And so many empaths are also codependents. And codependency is when you put somebody else’s life and needs above your own, you’re the last one that you take care of. You don’t practice self care. You don’t think, oh, my God, this is so overwhelming. I need to take care of myself first. You don’t think that. You think, I’m giving everybody to everything to everybody else. And, one thing that I talk about in The Genius of Empathy is the beautiful nature of self empathy, of being able to show empathy and compassion for yourself. You’ve been through a lot. Everybody who’s listening to this podcast is spiritually open and you’ve been through a lot. And that’s the nature of this earth school here, is that we have a lot to learn here. And sometimes it’s really hard, sometimes it’s a joy and it’s just a delight, but sometimes it’s just really hard. And so you need to show yourself self empathy at that point. And ironically, it’s so much easier to show empathy to others than to yourself. But you have to learn. Now is the time to stop. And first, take care of me. Put your hands over your heart like I’m doing right now, and just feel your heart chakra. Take a breath. Breathe out the stress and the problem and, the anxiety and the panic, whatever you’re feeling, and focus just simply on your loving heart. You’re doing the best you can. You’re a loving, beautiful person. You need to take a break now to center yourself so you don’t feel overwhelmed. And, you begin to shower yourself with this loving self empathy rather than forgetting that step. This is the first step that you need to do. The first step and to do it every day and to have affirmations. I value empathy for myself. I value self care as an empath. I need to take care of myself, and there’s nothing selfish about that. so I can be in good shape and enjoy my life and also help others, but not everyone. Because I tell you, I’ve been in so many situations where I’ve given a big talk and a lot of people come up to me and they’re all beautiful people and they all have something to share. And I’m tired. I can’t do anymore. And so at those times, I just say it’s time for me to practice self care. I wish I could stay here for hours and answer everyone’s questions because you’re wonderful, but I can’t. I’m tired. I need to go back to my room and rest.

Julie Jancius: So it’s true. Yes.

Judith Orloff: People– empaths often feel like it’s not okay to do that.

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Julie Jancius: For your support on this.

Julie Jancius: Thank you. Now let’s dive back into the show.

Julie Jancius: And I think it’s compounded because at least from my perspective, it feels like it’s always been on women, at least our generation that grew up, a lot of us listening to this podcast, seventy s, eighty s, ninety s, and even younger, generations that, were raised taking care of their baby dolls, right, and doing all of the womenly things and having to be extra sensitive to everybody’s emotions around them. And I’m at this point in my life right now where I’m in my middle years and, my friends around me, we’ve been working on our careers. I’ve got all working friends who have kids that are just in the middle of elementary school, middle school, and they’re getting to the height of their careers. And it’s a lot. I was talking to one of my girlfriends the other day, and she’s like, I don’t know when I’m expected to go to the gym, and work out because it’s hard to get up and be there at 05:00 a.m. In the morning. But then the gyms don’t schedule classes again until like 09:00 a.m.. 930. But I’ve got to be at work and then there’s night classes, but I got to take my kids to basketball practice and football practice and over here to dance. And I just wonder, too, if we’re still working within our society at meeting women where they’re at and still figuring out ways to reach women in particular so that we can take care of ourselves.

Judith Orloff: Yes. To have enlightened workout centers that can give questionnaires or something, when are the best hours for all of you and let’s try and make it happen. Yeah, you could put in that suggestion you can be proactive with, that, because I want to work out, but I have all this going on like so many women do. And so it’s important, though, for empaths to express your needs instead of just feeling overwhelmed by the workout schedule that doesn’t fit into your schedule. Yeah, actually say something to them. Can you consider adding another class or doing something for the rest of us who can’t make those times? So you have to ask. And a lot of times, empaths aren’t used to asserting their own needs, and it’s just important what the worst they can say is ‘no.’

Julie Jancius: Yeah.

Julie Jancius: Well, because so often we make self care about taking bubble baths and making space in our room for those little things. But the women that I’m talking to right now, it’s just like your basic needs, like being able to move your body, being able to eat healthy. So I’ve worked around energy for almost the last ten years, and I would say that you, And what you write about, I’ve read almost all of your books. You’re really, like one of the world renowned energy healers of our time in the way that you talk about empathy. and a lot of the empaths that I work with will say, Julie, the way that I feel energy within my body, because when they give readings or whatnot, they’re feeling, perhaps even the way that people passed. They’re feeling different heartaches that the person, their client is going through. and I tell them all the time, you don’t have to feel this for forever. You can feel and release this. And I think it ties very closely into what you talk about with empaths. It’s not for us to keep weighing us down and keep heaviness around us, or for us to hop into the bodies of others and solve their problems for them. What are the tools that you have found the best? That when we’re feeling these energies, or maybe getting these intuitive hits, that we’re able to really release the energy from our being so that we don’t have to carry it.

Judith Orloff: Yes. Well, if you’re doing a reading for somebody, or if you’re doing readings throughout the day, you have to take time out between the readings. You can’t do back to back readings. That’s crazy, because you won’t have cleared the first person’s energy from your body and from the room. I’ve had patients who’ve been so in touch, they say, I still feel the other person’s energy, and you’re like, I didn’t clear it. I was rushed, I was doing something else. But you have to clear it between each reading or even before or after a reading. You have to tune into yourself and get very strong in your own energy during the reading to keep breathing. So if there’s any stress and if you notice you’re triggered by something the person is saying, just note it, you can deal with it later. That’s part of your healing. Just notice if the person’s angry or depressed and you’re suddenly like this. So just part of all of this, being an empath and genius of empathy is learning self healing. You heal in the process. It’s not just like you’re healing other people. And then when you’re done, take a breath. Notice if you feel any energy in your body, like you say you feel it in your heart. I used to feel it a lot in my solar plexus. sometimes people feel it in their lower backs. So each person has to find their vulnerable point and breathe through that, or drink some water immediately to purify the system. And put your hands over your heart and begin generating heart energy, which is like a natural purifier of negative energy. The more heart you can put into a room, it’s just like clearing out all the sludge from the previous session, and then, center yourself, come back to you. That is a critical point. And then, invite the next person in, or go on Zoom again.

Julie Jancius: So how can we change the way that we look at empathy and talk to us about the genius points of empathy as well, those points that are just flipping the script on the negative ways? Because I don’t know about you, but growing up, my parents would always be saying, what was it? You’re too sensitive. You’re trying to solve the world’s problems. You’re too sensitive. And, how can you flip the script on that to make it a positive that you’re an empath?

Judith Orloff: Yes, well, I think most of us have been called too sensitive. Everyone listening, ask yourself, have you been called too sensitive? I’ve been called too sensitive. My parents told me to, put on a thicker skin. I have to be tougher in the world. I’m never going to survive the world unless I’m tough and unless I have armor around me and all of that, which didn’t seem to help when I was a child because I didn’t know how to do any of that. And plus, I felt like there was something wrong with me on top of it. And so I just got really quiet and went inward and didn’t talk about it then. You know, it’s– You can read the book. But, my journey has been. I got very heavily involved with drugs when I was a teenager to try and shut it off. And then I went over a cliff in a car up in Topanga Canyon in Los Angeles. And my parents forced me to see a psychiatrist who said, in order for you to be whole, you have to accept your intuition and empathy. You can’t keep running from it like this. And so I’ve had guides throughout my life, who’ve really helped me to stay on track when I go off, you see? And so it’s important for you to know there’s nothing wrong with you. There never has been anything wrong with you. You’re not crazy. So you can let go of those old stories and instead reprogram yourself with– I’m this amazing empath. I have these abilities that help me to connect to nature, to connect to people, to love people, to love myself, which is often omitted, to have empathy for myself. And this is the way I want to be. This is how I was born, or this is how I developed as a child, and this is a gift, and I want to be with people who understand this and can honor this in me. So that’s really important. But in terms of the genius parts of empathy, I’ll just randomly turn to something in this book. Okay. How to empathize without taking on people’s stress. That’s what I turn to.

Julie Jancius: I love it.

Judith Orloff: Yeah. A dread that many of my patients share is, what if people ask more than I can give? I feel guilty if I say no. To be of service, you don’t have to give 100% or more to everyone in need. All right. At times, it’s okay not to be so available. So that’s just the beginning of this.

Julie Jancius: I love it.

Judith Orloff: Be on call. But just notice how I turn to the exact right page at this moment. And you could read the book like that. You could just turn to a page, and that’s like an oracle. And, I got the high art of empathic listening, how to hold a supportive space for others. So maybe you need to learn how to do that. And so it’s important that you can be there for other people, because it’s your nature. You like doing that, but you hold a supportive space, meaning you send out hard energy, but you don’t jump in their bodies and try and fix them. And so there’s a whole chapter on that, too, on how to do this. How do we do it? This isn’t just a theory. I’m not just saying one sentence and leaving it at that. This is a whole chapter on how to do it and what to practice. So I’m really big on practical skills and techniques that work. If they don’t work, I’m not interested in, them. I don’t care if they work for other people. They don’t work for me, so they’re out, at least at the moment. They have to work for you. I know people come to me. Well, how do I know you know, because you feel better, you feel more together, you feel like you could take a breath and you feel safer in your environment, like you’re not being bombarded all the time by stuff from everywhere. You know how to bring your energy in sometimes when you want to, and you know how to bring your energy out. So it’s learning to work with your own energy field, but knowing you have that ability to do that, so it means owning your power.

Judith Orloff: Which is so important as an empath. But I want to stress in the book I go through, this is what you do first, this is what you do second in these situations. And I have one section on how to have empathy with someone you don’t like. Or or how to have empathy with somebody that you disagree with, which is such a big topic now, how do you do that? Is it impossible? Why do you want to do that and all of that? So I think it’s important for us to be conscious about these dilemmas and hopefully make a choice towards empathy.

Julie Jancius: Would you say that most empaths have higher expectations?

Judith Orloff: I think many times they have unrealistic expectations of people.

Julie Jancius: How do you work with that

Judith Orloff: Under the subject of unrealistic expectations? What throws you off? I have, a chapter in here on blocks to empathy. And one of the blocks removing blocks and one of the blocks are unrealistic expectations. Because if you expect something of somebody and you keep expecting it and they’re incapable of giving it, that’s a definition of insanity. You have to and see what someone’s capable of. You might love a person with all your heart, but that person isn’t capable of reciprocating. I’m sorry about that. It’s a terrible feeling, but you must accept that this person is. I could keep going to them and getting crumbs from them, but they’re not going to reciprocate that. And once you can accept that, you could feel the grief of that or the hurt of that, but you don’t keep going to them and get battered over and over again.

Julie Jancius: I guess kind of reversing a little bit. Why do you think it is that most empaths have unrealistic expectations?

Judith Orloff: I wouldn’t say most, I would say sometimes at various phases in our life we do. And this is where self compassion comes in. Let’s say you want a soulmate and with all your heart you want a soulmate. And it’s been so hard to find. You find somebody and you see the red flags, but you also see the good parts of them. And the more you know them, the more the red flags get bigger and bigger. You don’t want to see them. This is person. You want to love this person, but the more you get to know them, they’re not the one. And it’s so painful to see reality, but it’s necessary so you don’t get too deep into that. I have a chapter on, narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths, and these are people that empaths might fall in love with, and it’s really a dangerous situation. So please read that chapter, if that’s you, so that you don’t get involved.

Julie Jancius: Yeah, we’re on the same wavelength. I was going there next because you talk a lot about empaths and narcissists and how they’re kind of the yin to the yang of energies a little bit. Right. and so, empaths have this over empathy. Narcissists have this complete devoid of empathy. And so they can really kind of cling on to us. This we probably talk about for an entire hour. But what have you found may be, like, the top three things of helping the empath to see the red flags that maybe they don’t want to see or understanding that they’re in that narcissistic relationship.

Judith Orloff: Well, number one, be aware if you tend to be attracted to narcissists, and this could be teachers, it could be boyfriends, girlfriends, it could be friends. Just notice if you have that pattern, very gently, ask yourself if you have that pattern. Two, ask yourself if you want to continue that pattern. All right. Honestly, I mean, you might want to continue it because you haven’t reached a bottom with it yet. And number three, notice if somebody is overly charismatic and is love bombing you, which is a big sign that you’re dealing with a narcissist, because regular people don’t love bomb you. And love bombing feels amazing. It just feels like, oh, my God, this person knows how to read me perfectly, and they’re just so wonderful. And all this because they know how to send out the energy from the heart. Kaboom. Which is a love bomb. So I would be very suspicious of that. And go slow. Don’t just think, oh, this is the best thing in the world. It could be. This person really knows how to channel love and is a healthy person. I’m not saying that all people who give off that kind of love are narcissists. I’m not saying that. I’m just saying, be careful. It’s a sign. I mean, I do not like charisma, usually, unless somebody proves themselves to be a good person, because people abuse charisma. And so if I meet somebody who has oozing with charisma, I go, okay, that’s interesting, but I don’t get too impressed by it.

Julie Jancius: I think you did a social media post about this recently where you were talking about narcissistic. You’re being in a relationship with a narcissist, how you get out, and it can be really hard. The getting out part, what have you seen is the best tip or recommendation that you can give to somebody who’s already in a long term relationship with a narcissist and they want to get out? Yes.

Judith Orloff: Okay. Well, it depends on the situation. I work with couples where the non narcissist has children with the narcissist, and the children aren’t grown yet. And so what do you do then? It’s a little trickier, but let’s just say a, simpler scenario. Let’s say you don’t have any overlapping courts with the narcissist or businesses in common or anything where you’d have to do anything, have anything to do with them. The best way is cold turkey. It’s just no contact. No contact at all if you have the luxury of doing that, because otherwise they’re going to turn on their charm again. They’re not going to be that person who’s cold and withholding and punishing and gaslighting you and depleting your self esteem. They’re not going to be that person for a while. They’re going to be, oh, I hear you. I’m going to go into therapy, of course. I’m going to work on the relationship. They’re going to do something like that. I could guarantee you. So no contact? None. No text, no checking on their social media, seeing who they’re with, nothing. You have to cut the psychic cords as well as the physical cords. All right? So you have to be ready for this to go, otherwise they’re going to come after you.

Julie Jancius: Yeah. somebody close to me has been going through a divorce this last year, and he’s just been coming back time and time again, and he’s just brutal to her where each time he comes crawling back, he is love bombing her with affection and just these long notes. And then as soon as she doesn’t initiate contact or won’t engage, the letters just almost become violent of flipping the script, the completely opposite end of, just how horrible she is. And it’s like, how can both of those things reside within one human being. It’s just so foreign to me. I can’t understand it.

Judith Orloff: Well, I think you have to get used to it. That’s what I hear from empaths is, I can’t believe it. I’m so shocked. Don’t be. That’s more of a naive point of view that you can’t afford to have with these people. Honestly, you have to be able to see them for who they are. What we had about expectations, we talked about that you have to have very low expectations of these people. And, they have what’s called empathy deficient disorder, meaning they’re not capable of empathy. Not capable, like, get that, not capable. And it’s so hard for empaths to get that because they think everyone is. And they think if they could just love them enough, if they could just do ABC or D, that will change them or, oh, they had such a horrible childhood. I’m going to take care of them. No, it won’t work with these people. Maybe with someone who’s not a narcissist, you can work with those things. But no, if you’ve diagnosed them and it is your job to diagnose them, I have the criteria here. Just put it on a little card. Go out on a date. Ask yourself, do they have these? Check. Really, it’s so important because they’re all very predictable. Yeah, great thing. But you have to look at, why do I get involved with these people? And did I have a mother or father that was a narcissist? Was I abused as a child? Because then you’re often programmed to go towards what’s unhealthy for you simply because it’s familiar. And I strongly suggest working with somebody who specializes in narcissism to help free yourself from that pattern, because it’s sometimes a little bit too much for you to do by yourself.

Julie Jancius: For sure.

Judith Orloff: Somebody supportive, who knows about narcissism. But just want to warn you, if you bring your narcissist spouse into a therapist office who doesn’t know anything about narcissism, most likely they’ll try and seduce the, therapist in terms of, oh, my God, I try all these things, but it’s her fault or his fault. They might believe him. They might be seducable. So the real experts at working with narcissists are not seducible by narcissists. So you have to find an expert.

Julie Jancius: Yeah.

Julie Jancius: Looking at all of your research, what do you believe the percentage of our population is that is empathic?

Judith Orloff: The old statistic was, 20% to be empaths or highly sensitive. I happen to think it’s much more. I think it’s growing. Of course. I get tons of emails and correspondence, and I’m around empaths all the time. And my favorite people. I love empaths. I also love non empaths. I don’t want to be on empaths all, every single second, because it would drive me crazy. Too many something going on. but I think in some subsets of the population, like where I live, I live in California, they’re everywhere. I mean, they’re 40%, maybe. I would say no, it just depends. In spiritual circles, there are maybe 80%. Yeah, it, just depends where you’re taking your survey. But there are so many people who are empaths now. When I first wrote my first book about it, I was afraid that my readers wouldn’t know what an empath was because it wasn’t in the zeitgeist, the lexicon yet. And now it’s everywhere. TikTok, social media, everybody’s an empath, which, is good and has its positives. As long as people are taking responsibility for it and healing. That’s a wonderful thing.

Julie Jancius: Yeah.

Judith Orloff: But a lot of times people come to me, they’re new empaths, and they don’t know how to do that. So you start from step one. It’s a process. If you’re a new empath and you’re listening to this show, you just start from the beginning. You start with, am I an empath? I have a, 20 question self assessment test that you can take, and it’s possible to diagnose yourself. So you could feel free to share that quiz on your site if you want to, to give it.

Julie Jancius: Oh, yeah, absolutely, we can. That’s beautiful. That’s really beautiful.

Judith Orloff: But you could diagnose yourself. It’s that simple. Ah, you don’t need to go. Most psychiatrists wouldn’t know how to diagnose you, first of all, because they don’t know how to treat empaths.

Judith Orloff: So it’s tricky. But if you go to a healthcare practitioner who is also educated in holistic health, they will know how to deal with this. But if you go to a surgeon, let’s say, and you need some kind of surgery, that’s very linear and most likely those people won’t know. Although I met a surgeon recently who did know, and he was a hardcore football surgeon who handled all the injuries. So I was particularly thrilled that he knew.

Julie Jancius: Yes, so I’ve got another question for you. I talk about this sometimes with, my clients, that to me, it feels like when I’m working with folks, there’s a range of empathy. We can be slightly empathic. We can have all of our doors and windows open where we’re just full on completely empathic. We could be not empathic at all. And when you’re working with so many different people, you’ve got a person over here saying, hey, you should do this, and hey, you should do this. Some folks, it’s funny, on the opposite end, when I’m giving a session or a reading for people, they’ll be like, Julie my biggest hold up is I told my sister once I gave

Julie Jancius: her advice, she never took it.

Julie Jancius: And I’m so mad at her because she never took the advice. And on the opposite end, sometimes you’re given advice from all different angles. And also having adhd, it can be like squirrel sometimes of you’re getting so much different feedback, especially right now, as the podcast just keeps growing and growing, that every time somebody brings something in, I’m like, oh yeah, that would be amazing, and that would be amazing, and that would be amazing. And, oh, yeah, we just don’t have the capability to do everything. I find that my empathy works in a way where I’m so stubborn at the same time. I’m a capricorn goat, and, spirit.

Judith Orloff: Has to like what? I love the goat.

Julie Jancius: Oh, yay.

Judith Orloff: Rising sign is the goat.

Julie Jancius: Yes. I don’t know. I’m January 6. I’m not sure.

Judith Orloff: Oh, yeah, I’m a cancer. But my, I think it’s a rising sign, it’s the goat. And then I have Aries, too. So Aries, cancer and Capricorn.

Julie Jancius: I think I’ve got Aries as well in there. One of the signs, that gets.

Judith Orloff: Us out in the world.

Julie Jancius: Yes. I’m just wondering, how do you mix in the stubbornness with it, where half the time I’m not even realizing how much I’m absorbing other people’s ideas and taking them on, trying to make them happen, or taking on other people’s energies for a while. Right. It takes a while to kind of realize just how much I’m taking on of other people’s stuff.

Judith Orloff: Okay, well, I’ll address the first thing you said about, I’m so, upset they didn’t listen to me.

Julie Jancius: Oh, yeah, that’s the opposite. Then I worry about that because I know some people really get upset and I’m like, I don’t want to not listen to people, but I can’t do everything. And every different idea that everyone has.

Judith Orloff: I know. Let me answer from a little bit of a different point of view, is that I wish everyone would listen to me, but they don’t. So you have to get used to the fact that you can’t control other people. You can have the best ideas and you know they’re going to work. You just know it. But the person doesn’t do it. So that’s just human nature. That’s part of learning to work with human beings is that you can’t expect them to follow through with everything that you say. You can put it out there if you so choose. But they might listen. They might not listen, or they might listen ten years from now, but you can’t to be upset that someone doesn’t listen to you.

Julie Jancius: Oh, and that’s not me too. That’s just my clients that I hear all the time.

Judith Orloff: Yeah, I’m addressing that client because it really, touched me when you said that. But anyways, don’t be too upset that people don’t listen. That’s just how they are, and you can’t force them. Okay, so with you, you get a lot of advice from different people. Is that right? And you’re confused about all the advice.

Julie Jancius: I just take it on. It’s like I’m like, so many people have so many beautiful ideas. I just want to do it all. But then you just don’t have time or energy to do everything.

Judith Orloff: Well, that’s true. part of the Tao Te Ching, one of the most beautiful readings, is looking at our limitations and learning. We can’t do it all. You’re enthusiastic, you’re open, you’re excited, and you want to do it all. And, you just can’t. So I would choose one thing, not nine things out of ten, but one thing out of ten, and do it with all your heart. Just give your all to one thing. Don’t spread yourself too thin, because then you’re going to get drained and confused and all in a flurry. You don’t just choose one thing, do it well, and, enjoy that. And if you have had, I don’t know, if you’ve had parents who are high achievers, just look at that. Look at why you would want to do that and show self empathy with why you would want to do that and really limit how much you do and who you listen to. I couldn’t listen to too many people’s ideas. It would be too much that brings up another topic with empaths and talking. I can’t really talk too much. Once I’ve reached my quota of talking during a day, I just want silence or I need alone time. And so you don’t want to talk too much to other people. Although you said you were an introvert, but you’re a bit of an extrovert too. So you’re like a people person.

Julie Jancius: A bit of, An extroverted introvert.

Judith Orloff: An ambivert.

Julie Jancius: Oh, perfect. Yes.

Judith Orloff: It’s a combination of the two.

Julie Jancius: Yeah, 100%.

Judith Orloff: Yeah. But limit all the opinions. Don’t solicit so many opinions.

Julie Jancius: Yeah.

Judith Orloff: And somebody might give you an opinion where they think you should follow it and you don’t want to. That’s important for empaths to say, to learn what to do when that happens, to say, you know, I’ll consider what you have to say. Thank you. Instead of anything else. Because people are very pushy. Some can be very pushy, and you just have to have a script. So much of what I talk about in the genius of empathy is developing a script for certain situations so you know how to handle them. And you have a script to go, oh, okay. I could say that. And if I need to say more, I could think about it.

Julie Jancius: Yeah.

Judith Orloff: So, it’s a lot of practicality, learning how to be an empath, a lot of practical techniques. So I really encourage you to read the book and to practice the techniques with friends, even if you don’t want to start with your clients or, your mother. Don’t start with your mother or your father, because they’re the hardest for sure.

Julie Jancius: No, I think that that’s probably one of the best pieces of advice that I’ve ever gotten. and I think I’ve read it in your books first, is just practicing it beforehand creates that muscle memory. one of the things, and I don’t know if this is just me or empaths in general, but sometimes when I’m in front of somebody trying to have that hard conversation, it’s very difficult to get the words out because you’re feeling the other person’s emotions as you’re addressing something. And, it’s hard for you to stand firm in your own emotions and what it is that you need to say when you’re also feeling, what’s being received on the other end through their other perspective. So, no, I think that that’s great advice. to just focus on the script.

Judith Orloff: Focus on the script. Don’t talk for more than 15 seconds about it. Don’t get into a long because you just took a big, deep breath over this one. So this is an important issue for you. And, just 15 seconds of I hear what you’re saying and you have your good points and I’ll give it some thought. Thank you so much. And if they say but and want to talk about it more, I said I’m going to spend some time with it. Thank you.

Julie Jancius: That’s beautiful. Do you find as an empath, or maybe with your extroverted empaths that, it’s better to have a smaller circle, but those that you just feel very safe with, you have to do what’s.

Judith Orloff: Most comfortable for you and it doesn’t stay static. It could change in different phases of your life. But in general, for me, I prefer smaller groups or one to one. I don’t like a lot of talking. That’s the thing with a lot of people. If they were just all silent, it would be different. Yeah. But talking people everywhere, just like, it’s made too much. Yeah. And so I have to know that about myself. So I love talking to you and I love, if a friend comes over and we have tea and we go for a walk by the beach, I like that. As opposed to going to big parties, which I rarely do, but sometimes I go and I’ll enjoy it if I’m in good shape when I go. But that’s just me. Because you could be an extroverted empath and love being more with people in larger groups, but you still need to decompress. You still need the alone time. You still need to breathe and rest. Rest is so important for empaths. So you have to ask yourself, am I an extrovert, an introvert, or an ambivert? Which is a little of each and go through in the book? This is what you do. If you’re an ambivert, this is what you do. So there are formulas for this, and I’m not being simplistic, it just happens that practical techniques really work with amazing.

Julie Jancius: Judith, you’re so wonderful. Thank you so much for being here. Tell everyone where they can find your book, where they can find you, your website, social media, and we’ll put it all in the show notes below.

Judith Orloff: Oh, thank you. my website is drjudithorloff.com. And for those of you in the LA area, I’m giving an in person book launch event on April 13 at Mystic Journey bookstore, which is on main street in Santa Monica. so you’re all invited to that. I’m having all kinds of book tour events, some of them online, some of them in person. Also be at Broman’s in Pasadena on May eigth. So I invite you all to partake of what I’m offering and use it as an empathy. Know, just love yourself, love other people, experience empathy, self care as an empath. Make it an empathy month for know, a special celebration.

Julie Jancius: Oh, I love that. Thank you so much, Dr. Judith for being here and for all you do for this world. You’ve helped so many of us come more home to ourselves through your work. So I thank you very much for that.

Judith Orloff: You’re very welcome. Thank you for having me on your.

Julie Jancius: Great show, beautiful soul. Thank you so much for joining me today. My name’s Julie. You know, I’m all about connecting you with messages from your Angels and loved ones on the other side. If you’ve been listening today and you’re super excited and just have to know which Angels are around you right now, who’s connecting with you and what messages they have for you, go to theangelmedium.com. Register for a session. You can do a reading with me or a member of my team. We’re all incredible. We all talk to Angels daily, and we can help you in making sure that your Angels are doing the very best they can to support you and guide you to your best life. If this sounds like you, virtual sessions, they’re only offered on my website. Sign up today. And if you’re the person who’s really excited, you’re ready to go all in. Developing all of your unique spiritual gifts, growing your intuition, starting your own healing business. You can sign up for my angel Reiki school to become a certified angel messenger. That’s for the healers among us who feel called to grow their intuition to the max and serve humanity with their gifts. You’ll learn reiki mediumship, how to deliver angel messages, and how to get clients. That’s theangellreiki school@theangelmedium.com, or dm m me on instagram at angelpodcast with any questions before you go. Connect with your Angels by placing your hands on your heart. Take a deep breath. Imagine, a doorway filled with God’s unconditional love is right in front of you. Step into that love and feel it as it fills your body, chakras, and auric field. Now ask your Angels what would you have me know today? And open yourself to the positive, loving messages they have just for you.

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