Hello beautiful souls! I’m excited to share my discussion with Rainn Wilson (actor on The Office, Host of The Geography of Bliss and author of Soul Boom: Why We Need A Spiritual Revolution) about the relationship of spirituality, service, and the next chapters of humanity. Rainn talks about the importance of not only using spiritual tools to work on ourselves, but its importance in helping the whole world. We also talk about building that spiritual community and takeaways from watching organized religion.
To learn more about Rainn Wilson and his work:
Watch The Geography of Bliss on the Peacock Network
His book Soul Boom: Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution is available at all major book retailers
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Julie Jancius 01:36
Hello, beautiful souls. Welcome back to the Angels and Awakening Podcast. I’m your host and author Julie Jancius. Friends Today we’re here with Rainn Wilson. You might know him from the show The Office. But he has written a beautiful, poetic, a very deep, deep book on spirituality. It’s called Soul Boom: Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution. And what I want you to know is just that he– Well, I’m going to read some of his words because I think that he says it better than I can. So I’m going to read you just a couple of lines from his book a couple of different parts because I want you to go into this interview, really seeing what I see I read this book from cover to cover, really went through it with a fine tooth comb, and he makes so many brilliant points. In this very first part, he says– and I propose that humanity suffers every day from lack of spirituality, the nourishment that can be found in the ancient wisdom based writings for the soul. Those achingly beautiful words that stream from the Divine Source teachings that have been around in one form or another for a very long time, inspired holy wisdom, we desperately need to revolutionize and transform how we approach, consider and ultimately address everything we human beings do on planet earth. Because the keys necessary to transformational change can be found in the core of spiritual writings, holy texts, and the essential teachings of the various religious faiths throughout history. Do not fear skeptics, atheists, anti religionist, and agnostics. We don’t need to ascribe to a particular religion or faith in order to put these practices to use in individuality or collectively, there is, after all, a significant difference between spirituality and religion. It’s why spiritual but not religious is the fastest growing belief system in our country. However, while we don’t need religion, per se, we do need to be in a humble enough posture of learning to admit the following. As a species, we are quite lost right now. And perhaps the system’s beliefs, practices and behaviors that society is currently operating in, are simply not working. Maybe they are founded on some faulty unsustainable assumptions, maybe political parties, International, in-government, inter governmental organizations, and our Washington DC leaders won’t fix us. Maybe our existing economic systems, nonprofits and social movements don’t have the answers either. We Need another way forward, a soul inspired revolution.
So friends, that is what today’s interview with Rainn is all about how we are really coming to a point within our world where our biggest disease is a spiritual disease, a lack of spirituality, and the way forward is spirituality, your relationship with God/ universe/ source.
And this is another very, very interesting part that I’m reading to you next from the book. Rainn says Western thought has been manically focused on God as the source of creation of founder and an instigator. There have been countless debates, discussions and philosophical treatises. In this vein, my friend, the great Baha’i philosopher, Stephen Phelps, reminded me that the discussion has unfortunately been far less focused on God as a goal, a destination, a way of life, a rich garden of qualities to emulate, or an energy to both draw from and align with. He goes on to say, perhaps, we ought to spend less time thinking of this creative force of God as a watt, and more like a ‘how.’ How to live in this world with a radiance, humility, a spirit of service and a sacred harmony. He goes on to say that all of us should ask ourselves the question, What does God want from me? What do they want from us? Because at the end of the day, it all boils down to what does the great mystery want from me personally? What do they want from us collectively? Surely, there must be some kind of plan.
I’m telling you, friends, there is just one nugget after another in this book, of just these very profound spiritual moments. Another part that I just loved in the book is when he talks about and equates love to be action, you know, love has to be actionable. He says, if one thing unites all religions, all faiths, it is the universality of the law of love. And as with my point about prayer, we are all called to move our concept of love from beyond a mere feeling in the chest to action. Because isn’t that what it’s ultimately about? If you love your relations, your country, your planet, you do something to help nurture and support them, right? Mother Teresa sums it up with love cannot remain by itself. It has no meaning. Love has to be put into action. And that action is service. Around the same area in the book, he quotes a poem that says, I slept and dreamt that life was joy. I awoke and saw that life was service. I acted and behold, service was joy. Friends, I am telling you there is just one nugget of wisdom after another. And I actually had to read this book more slowly to really digest it and marinate on it because you know, there are some books that you can read very quickly. And there are some books that are so dense and thick and just jam packed with amazing details and profound aha moments, that it’s almost like your being just needs time to sit with them. And for me that was a lot of this book. So without further ado, I hope you love this interview. Here is Rainn Wilson.
Hello, beautiful souls. Welcome back to the Angels and Awakening podcast and your host and author Julie Jancius. And friends. You are not gonna believe who we have on the show today. It’s the one and only Rainn Wilson. You might know him better from Dwight over on The Office and Rainn, thank you just so much for being here today.
Thanks for having me. I know we’ve been trying to connect for a while. I’m so glad that we get to have a conversation. Thanks for having me.
Julie Jancius 09:55
You’ve been everywhere. I’m seeing you on all the podcasts. On the Drew Barrymore show on late night TV, and you are really spreading this mission of a spiritual revolution, you say that what the world is kind of going through right now, we’re at a point of a spiritual disease. And really the remedy to this is a spiritual revolution. I know the entire book is about this. I’m going to pick out some pieces, but talk to us a little, a little bit about this.
Yeah, the oh, look, I just happen to have a copy right here. Soul Boom: Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution. Yeah, I mean, one of the things I talked about early on in the book, is this idea that there is a two fold spiritual path, and that we in the Western world, often think about the spiritual path, our personal spiritual path as the as the main spiritual path and in a lot of ways it is. I compare that to the great 70s television show Kung Fu, which is about Kwai Chang Caine is a Shaolin monk. And he’s, you know, he goes to the Old West, but he fights martial arts, but he has all this deep, wonderful Eastern wisdom. And he goes through his life, combating racism and, and aggression and trying to make himself a better person and to share his wisdom and whatnot. And that I use as an analogy for our personal spiritual transformation, which is so important, finding peace and serenity, meditation, prayer connection, maybe it’s yoga or meditation class being in nature, that that kind of path. The other one I talk about, is this is compared to the show Star Trek, which you may not think at first blush, that it’s a very spiritual show. But it really kind of is because humanity has solved all of its problems in Star Trek, racism doesn’t exist anymore. Income inequality doesn’t exist anymore. Men and women are equal, we are loving and working together. And because we’re unified, we’re then able to go out into space, and explore strange new life and new civilizations.
So that’s the other part of the spiritual journey, which is taking our first path, and then sharing it. And, you know, the Buddha talked a great deal about the elimination of suffering, right, and lots of ways to do that being in the moment, non attachment, etc. But one of them is service to others. And this idea that we want to reduce that because of our compassion, for others, we want to reduce the suffering of others. And then this isn’t spoken about quite as much. But this is part of the, the mission of the Buddha and and all of Buddhism is reducing the suffering of others. And that’s what a bodhisattva is a bodhisattva is someone who’s achieved nirvana, but chooses to come back down and be of service to humanity. So this, to me is the Star Trek path. And this is where this is the direction of the spiritual revolution, that we can use spiritual tools to not only transform ourselves and make ourselves more enlightened, kind, wise, loving, we can then take that spiritual juice, and we can put it in service to humanity, and rebuild systems and build grassroots movements based on it that makes the world a better place.
Julie Jancius 13:28
Absolutely. I think what’s fascinating for just like me, knowing my audience here is when I was reading the book, I kept thinking to myself, If my dad could have written a book in this lifetime, this is the book he would have wanted to write, because like you, he would read all of the different spiritual texts. And I think if my grandma could have read a book, she always wanted to learn about all the world’s religions. This sums it up. I mean, you really go through in detail and outline where we’ve been spiritually within the world, all of the world’s religions, you do an excellent job of summing it all up, and then showing people where we are and where we need to go. And one of the other kind of aha moments that kind of came out of this for me was, when you look at where we are right now, today, there are so many different people– and for the readers who haven’t read the book yet, and you should totally grow, go grab it. It’s one of the best books that I’ve read in the last five years.
Holy moly. That’s a big praise. Thank you.
Julie Jancius 14:36
Yea. I absolutely loved it. You really talk about that this new religion that the world needs, needs to not have a hierarchy of power, and that kind of like Alcoholics Anonymous, there needs to be local chapters all over. And I kept getting this picture within my mind of all the different people doing that. All the different healers out there. All of the different spiritual teachers. Is this already happening? Or do we need something unified? Centralized?
Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s a great question. It really is. Julie, it’s, um, I don’t exactly know how to answer it. And my book Soul Boom is set up to ask a whole bunch of questions. And like I say, In the beginning, it’s throwing a bunch of spiritual spaghetti at the wall, and we’ll see what sticks. I talk about God, I talk about the soul and life after death, I talk about the nature of suffering, the sacredness, finding sacred and holy spaces in our lives. But then I also talk about social transformation and like how taking spiritual tools and transforming it socially. You know, I am a member of the Baha’i faith, which brings me a great deal of peace and meaning and purpose. And this is not a Baha’i book by any stretch of the imagination. But for me, Baha’i faith allows a framework for personal transformation and social action. And I wanted to have the book, this was a book for everyone, I really wanted atheists and agnostics to be able to appreciate it, people that had a deep spiritual connection to just the miracle and awe and wonder of being alive. And then also, I’ve been doing some interviews with, like, evangelical Christians and people in very organized religions. And it’s been pleasing to see that they’ve been getting something out of this discussion, because that’s what it is.
So, but yeah, I talk about how change needs to be at the grassroots. And it needs to be service based. And real change comes from– I have a section, don’t just protest build something. Yeah, it’s easy. We’re in a contemporary society that wants to protest Injustice at every turn. And that’s important. But then we stop there. So don’t just protest, it’s much harder to build something having to do with community. And I have these tools for a spiritual revolution that the end and one of them would you do so well and your audience does so well is to foster joy, and squash cynicism, we have to believe that change is possible. We can change hearts, we can transform hearts with love, and service, and we can spread joy around the world. And I love that 12 Step idea of like, No, you know, no clergy, and no kind of larger higher hierarchies. We’re servant leaders, you know, and I think that’s a great path to emulate.
Julie Jancius 17:49
There was one part in your book, where you talk about the Baha’i faith, and one principle in there, that if you’re going to do something, reach as many people as you can within the world, and you talk a lot about servitude, and how much each one of us is here to serve. And those are two things that I have felt very, very deeply within my being since I can remember as a little girl, but I had never seen it in any other spiritual text where it said, you know, if you’re gonna do that, we’ll go out and reach as many people as possible. Talk to us a little bit about that too.
Well, this, this is the Baha’i connection to that Star Trek idea. So I know this is very eclectic. I’m talking about a religion that most people haven’t haven’t heard of, and talking about TV show that was most famous in the 1970s. But that’s how my brain works. So forgive me. But yeah, the Baháʼu’lláh, the founder of the Baha’i Faith says, All men have been created to usher forth an ever advancing civilization. So it’s part of the reason that we’re alive is to help our species mature, grow wise, and progress. That’s pretty remarkable. Bahais do this not by converting people to the Baha’i faith, although people are welcome to join, but it’s not about that. It’s just about doing service, one of the highest forms of worship, in fact, the highest form of worship and the Baha’i faith is service to others Baháʼu’lláh says, work in the spirit of service is worship in the eyes of God. So, our work, your work, having these elevated beautiful conversations, on spiritual topics with a devoted coterie of listeners is, is an amazing service and this from a Baha’i perspective, that is, that is worship. So, of course, one can worship by by praying and, you know, being involved in you know, in rituals and, and, you know, finding sacred spaces, communing with people, but also worship has to do with service to humanity. So, we serve humanity, we try, we try and usher forth and ever advancing so realization, this is that Star Trek path of the spiritual, the spiritual way that I hope will lead to a spiritual revolution by getting people digging into these spiritual tools that we can put into a practical use.
Julie Jancius 20:17
Amazing. I love that. Okay, I want to– Can I read just a little paragraph from your book?
Of course, the narcissist in me is applauding you for reading a chunk of my book. Thank you.
Julie Jancius 20:31
Okay, so this is the part where you talk about your dad passing. And you say that there’s this really profound aha moment that you come into when you’re looking at his body after he passes. And you really realize that, that this was just a vessel that he’s no longer in this physical body. And you say, if my previous observation is true, and we are not just our bodies, and in fact, our consciousness transcends our physical limitations, then what does that mean for how we live our lives until our body’s final breath, the first evidence of humanity having some kind of spiritual journey, seen in some of the earliest human settlements, more specifically, the burial mounds of 30,000 to one 100,000 years ago, in almost every single ancient culture around the world, bodies were buried in shallow graves, and alongside those bodies were regularly placed items and objects that the deceased individual might need in the afterlife, swords, jewelry, pets, canoes, tools, why? Why would humans from the beginning of time not just toss bodies aside the same way that animals do, it’s a hell of a lot easier, plus the time, expense and difficulty. And lastly, items weren’t seen as being lost for forever. And we’re instead viewed as essential tools for whatever awaited the dead man along the next chapter of his mysterious, ongoing journey. Are we wired for a spiritual connection to our lost loved ones? I thought that was like one of the best lines of the book, like, are we really wired for this spiritual connection, not just here in the present world? But this is a question that we ask all the time on the show. I think we are meant for that connection with our loved ones who crossover.
No question, no question. You know, you might make me cry a little bit. But my father passed away a couple years ago. And we were very, very close. And like I said, and I’m sure many of the listeners have had the same sensation, when I was preparing the body for burial. And I tell some funny stories about that in the book, just a profound bone deep realization that this is not my father, this body is not my father, his light, his soul, his energy, his consciousness, his beingness has moved on. And this was the vessel that carried it, it carried it for 79 years, God bless his soul. And the reality of who he is, has moved on. And one of the examples I give in the book is of the baby in the womb, you know, the babies in the womb are growing their arms and legs and eyeballs and eardrums and everything is going to need in this world. But if you went to a baby and said, Hey, why do you have arms and legs in your ball, your lobes and eyelashes? The baby will be like, I have no idea. I’m happy just sitting here in the amniotic sac, getting taken care of. I’ve got my food coming in on this tube. And I’m cool. I don’t know what all this stuff is for. But of course, we need it in the physical plane, right? We’re doing the same thing in this physical plane. We’re growing our spiritual arms and legs and limbs and eyeballs that we’re going to need in the next world. And those are the qualities of the Divine, the qualities of divine light, their mercy and love and kindness and compassion and open heartedness and creativity, the qualities of God, the qualities of the Divine, those are what we take with us and that’s what my father took with him. And I had no sense that he had been somehow extinguished and every deep sense in my gut that he had moved on that he had moved forward and and I commune with Him regularly you know, I do I you know, in the Baha’i tradition, of course, we pray to God to you know, for lack of a better word God but the great creative spirit of the this universe and infinite other universes beyond time and space, right. And I also can commune with my father’s spirit. I’m in conversation with him. But I’m in connection with him, I feel his presence, I feel his guidance. And that’s, that’s there because they’re there on the other side, in the same way that we’re on the other side for a baby in the womb, right? When, when you meet a pregnant friend, and you put your hand on their belly, and you’re right next to them, like we’re there for them, we’re monitoring them, where we’re caring for them, we’re making sure they’re getting the nutrients that they need. So that’s a very important part of my spiritual practice.
Julie Jancius 25:33
How do you know when your dad’s trying to get your attention from the other side?
You know, that’s, that’s a great question. I, to me, it’s, it mostly is when I’m in stillness, and I need to calibrate that in my meditation practice. So when I pray and meditate in the morning, and I do say some some Baha’i prayers and some other prayers, and then I sit in stillness, and then I always leave a little bit of time to just connect with my dad. And that just, you know, to ask God to guide his soul to and just say, Hey, Dad, I love you, I miss you. And, and, and that’s when I do sometimes– my son was going through a very difficult time, about a year ago. And I was really asking my dad for help, like, please be there as his grandfather from the other side and help him move forward. And, and I had several times this overwhelming sense of like, it’s going to be okay. Trust me, it may seem really bad right now. It’s going to be okay. And you know, what, it was okay. And nine months later, my son got out of that time, and he’s doing so much better and, and I truly feel the kind of guidance of my father spirits for that. So, but you have to stay open, it’s receptivity. You know, our hearts are like satellite dishes, you know, attuned to the divine kingdom. And we have to keep them radiating upwards, you know, turned upwards to be open to what comes.
Julie Jancius 27:11
Yeah, 100%, I believe that they’re guiding us every step of the way. And they’re always feeding us that guidance in different ways and different signs.
There are a lot of healers, who had spiritual teachers who listen to this show. And I want everybody listening, who knows that they’re called to serve in a spiritual capacity in some way to know that this book was very, very eye opening, because you go through and you give a couple of different lists, about, you know, what the world needs in a spiritual revolution right now. And as I looked at it, I was like, okay, the people who are on top of this working right now are hitting these points. But you could really clearly see in what you outlined, like these aha moments are going off in my head, we’re not hitting this, we’re not hitting this, we need to work better on this. One of them’s community, I think a lot of people are having a hard time really pulling in community, with a broader audience that serves people from across the world. The other one is, You talk a lot about how we have these big philosophical thoughts and ideas and spiritual texts, but really bringing them down to earth and grounding them, helping people put them into their everyday lives with practice, practical practice is we’re missing some of that. Right?
This is a delicate topic, but I feel like we have suffered a great deal of religious trauma. Culturally, a lot of people probably listeners have grown up in the church mostly, and had some negative experiences and feel traumatized by it and long for spirituality and connection, but don’t want to definitely do it through an organized religion. That is so many of my friends. And for me, I say that one of the phrases I use is, I feel like I’ve thrown this spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater, that we jettison religion. And then we also have lost a lot of what religion gives us. So some people say, Oh, is this a book about people that are spiritual, but not religious? And I was like, well, kind of I hope that those people enjoy the book and but I definitely, in some ways, make a case for religion itself, because there are aspects of religion that are incredibly positive. You know, like you mentioned community, like a group of people coming together in love to something bigger than them. I went to a church service recently memorial service and It was so beautiful, the singing together, the rituals, the we’re all there to celebrate the soul, the journey of the soul and, and it was so uplifting. There’s a lot that organized religion gives us. So I do talk about that that were quick to kind of be like, Oh, I don’t can’t be a part of organized religion and I get that. But we’ve lost some stuff, communal service, that if we’re not going to get it from an organized religion, then we can get it in other ways. But these are important for our mental health. And they’re important for our social health.
Julie Jancius 30:38
Absolutely. 100%. One of the other things that you talk about that I think maybe is missing, too, is radical compassion, radical compassion, we, we want to be compassionate, and yet something happens to us. And then we’re very easy to just kind of snap back to our old ways.
Yeah. Yeah, I talk about– I have a little science fiction diversion in that chapter where I talk about what if we could build a compassion machine, where you go inside this MRI machine with a brain scan, or whatever, and it put you in the skin in the shoes behind the eyeballs of someone totally, totally different than you. And you lived your life in their shoes for a period of time, it could be a Pakistani fisherman or a Mongol Shepherd, or someone in the bush in Africa or someone, you know, an immigrant in Central America, and where you would deeply deeply then feel for these different people. Now, if you if you imagine if you run, and you have them, like every week undergoing this, like you really understand what it’s like to be someone very, very different than you. And I use that as just a kind of a science fiction jumping off point to to be like, Can we do that in our lives? Can we really practice radical compassion, that’s what Jesus did. That’s what the Buddha did. That’s what all the great spiritual teachers did.
Julie Jancius 32:13
I actually believe that that’s what happens when we pass. I believe that part of us shows for a life review. And our life review isn’t like watching our lives on a big movie screen from the audience, where we’re in, we’re in other people’s shoes. We’re living out our actions in the people that we impacted in their skin.
I think so. And I think one of our biggest regrets will be when we pass is all the resentments that we had and the people we weren’t speaking to, and the people we had iced out of our lives, and we’re living in kind of like, you know, grumbling resentment of that’s just going to be instantly healed, because we can see them for who they are their failings, our failings are also fragile. Our egos are so delicate. And we’ll have an incredible vision that will allow that kind of radical compassion on the other side. I agree.
Julie Jancius 33:13
Yeah. Okay. You also have this story in the book about your pilgrimage to Jerusalem, and you talk in great length. One of the parts that I found so interesting was how much the different religious leaders bickered over there, even within the same church, which is not uncommon because I talked to a person who worked in the UN one time, and she said, they’re the ones when they come in to the UN, the religious leaders are always the ones that bicker the most between one another. But I love the story that you tell when you’re coming home, you’re at home for a couple of weeks, you’re in the car in LA, and you just have this moment of how was I so peaceful there, and I’m not feeling that here. And I need to hone in on this sacred space within myself. Everyone needs a place within themselves to come home to a sacred space within.
Yeah. So I went on a pilgrimage to the Holy Land, and it was really life changing. And if anyone hasn’t been to Jerusalem, it’s a powerful place. And just the fact that there’s billions of people that hold it as the most sacred spot. And it’s fascinating to see that the conflux of Judaism, Christianity and Islam coming together over just a couple of 100 square yards, really, you’re talking about the Temple Mount. And yeah, the bickering the history the disunity is tragic. But I also got to witness these holy sites like the Wailing Wall, like the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and then in the high tradition of the High Holy land in the north of Israel in Baha’i and visiting holy spots praying, they’re being in that sacred, holy sacrosanct condition of mind and heart, and then coming home. And then I’ve got emails and texts and zoom meetings and, and everything like that is really challenging. And, and I don’t have any answers around this, Julie you might more but how do we find sacred spaces, sacred acts, holy places holy ways of being in the world, in our daily life so that we can bring that sense, you know, the, the DNA people, the Navajo people have this prayer about, you know, walk in beauty and that this it’s a prayer that they say every day I walk in beauty, I hope to walk in beauty, may you walk in beauty, and we don’t walk in beauty in contemporary culture. And what would that be like to walk in beauty? Because that’s, that’s sacredness?
Julie Jancius 35:59
It is it is. And I hope that’s something that we do answer throughout this podcast. I know we’re running out of time here. I got two really quick questions. I’m just going to ask him both. One my daughter is in kind of acting, she loves the plays in schools, any tips or tricks for young actors out there? Young theater folk. And second, you have gotten to interview with some great spiritual minds of our time, Russell Brand, Jay Shetty. Tons of people lately. I’m wondering if there’s anything that you’ve had in those conversations where you’re like, wow, that’s either good for the next book, or I wish I would have put that in the book.
Well, it’s so funny when you’re writing a book. I was finishing the book on deadline, and I had to finish the last chapter. And I was like, Why the hell that I signed up to write a book. I’m never doing this again. Oh, my God, it’s so hard writing books is so hard. And of course, now I’m like, What’s my next book? I have learned so much from so many people along this conversation. It just hasn’t aired yet, but I did an Interview with Dan Harris, who has the 10% Happier podcast, which is very popular podcast on happiness. And he’s been doing a deep dive into Buddhism. Some episodes that are just I’ve found really transporting I’m very close to Buddhism and Buddhist thought.
I don’t have anything specific right now. But, you know, I’m intrigued by the meaning of life. It’s the biggest possible questions I like going for the biggest ones.
As far as acting. You know, I’m a big believer in training, I’m, there’s kind of this American thing of like, Brad Pitt takes a bus from Oklahoma and shows up at the Greyhound station. And he’s got a suitcase, and he’s a movie star. And he happens to be brilliant. But I’m a big believer in getting theater training and finding the very best teachers and going to the best schools and to spending those 10,000 hours working on what it means to use text and to move your body and to tell stories and to be doing it with other like minded people and getting all of that time so that you can have a rich, long career as an actor. So I would say get the very best training.
Julie Jancius 38:29
Wonderful. Thank you so much Rainn and everybody watching out there. You have to get Rainn’s new book Soul Boom you are going to love it. You learned so much about world like religions, just a really great overview of where we’re at with in the world. And if you’re a healer, this is a must read because it is going to give you so much insight into where God is calling you to help and serve humanity in different ways. Rainn, thank you so much for the work that you’re putting out into the world. Is there any last place that you want people to share where they can reach you?
Well, I’m on the old social media, but it certainly but I also want to just put in a plug Julie for a new TV show that’s coming out May 18, called the Geography of Bliss, where I traveled the world looking for happiness. And it’s a really uplifting travel documentary show. I go to Iceland and Africa and Thailand and in have a lot of fun along the way. And I think your listeners would really love it. It brings a lot of joy and hope to the viewer. And it’s it’s a lot of fun.
Julie Jancius 39:33
That’s incredible. We’ll have them watch that. And we’ll put all of that in the show notes below. Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you, Julie. Bye, bye.
Julie Jancius 39:41