Today I welcome Peter Panagore, who shares his profound near-death experience while ice climbing — a journey that took him beyond time, space, and form into a field of divine love. He describes meeting the Light, feeling complete unity, and the painful beauty of returning to human life after tasting eternity. Together, we explore what Heaven can teach us about living fully and loving deeply right here on Earth.

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Episode Highlights:

• Peter’s near-death experience and the message of pure love
• How Heaven transformed his view of God and life
• The lessons he brought back from the Light

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Transcript:

[Julie Jancius]

Hello friends, welcome to the Angels and Awakening podcast. I’m your host, Julie Jancis. If you love this podcast, please be our angel.

Ask a friend to listen, subscribe, rate us 5 stars, leave a positive review, and share a screenshot of this podcast on your Facebook or Instagram stories. So my dad passed away in 2015. We weren’t talking and it took a month for his family to track me down.

Before I ever knew he was gone, I started hearing from him in heaven. It consumed me. How is communication with the other side even possible?

I left my corporate gig, studied with spiritual teachers on every coast, and worked with my angels to figure out the answers. Today, my mission is teaching you how to raise your vibration, shift your thoughts, trust your intuition, develop your unique spiritual gifts, and connect with your loved ones and angels on the other side. Friends, when you have these tools, life really does become heaven on earth.

Hello, beautiful souls. Welcome back to the Angels and Awakening podcast. I’m your host and author, Julie Jancis.

Today you’re in for a treat. We’ve got Peter Panagore. He is the author of several, several books.

He had two near-death experiences. Peter, when I heard your stories, I remember reaching out to the woman who helps me get show guests on here and I just said, if at all possible, can we please try and get Peter on the show? So thank you for your time and thank you for being here.

[Peter Panagore]

Thanks for meeting me on this off night for you. I appreciate it very much.

[Julie Jancius]

Oh, I’m so excited. I always pray before the interviews. I like the angels to kind of direct the show on this.

And I want to start out first and foremost with angels because I think it might tie in later on. But when you were on the other side in both of your near-death experiences, I believe you refer to them as like light beings, but what did you see angel-wise? How did it differ or was it similar to maybe other light beings that you saw on the other side?

[Peter Panagore]

That’s a wonderful question and nobody’s ever asked me before. And so I’m going to begin long ago when I was five years old, I had my first angel encounter. And when I was five years old, I referred to it as an angel, but it was like a blaring waterfall, Niagara fall loudness when it first came to me.

It took me from my body, carried me up into the infinite space, but it enveloped me in like a bubble. And so I was inside of this orb of consciousness and I had a divine encounter. And that angelic being, when this encounter was over, that angelic being brought me back down the silver cord, the elevator shaft, the stairwell, whatever you want to call it, the ladder back to my human body.

But in that experience, I realized that I wasn’t ever really a human. I was this eternal being working for the divine. So that was the first time I met this angel.

And then this angel came to me several other times in my life. But the most powerful thing that happened was when I died the first time and it came for me and I died and I was half in and out of my body. And in front of me was this incredibly velvety dark space that was not infinite, but really, really, really big.

And way, way far away, this little tiny pinprick of light appeared and it rushed toward me. And as it came toward me, it filled my vision and told me, didn’t ask, you’re coming with me or I’m taking you or something like this telepathically. And then I was enfolded inside.

And it was like a, I call it an orb of consciousness or a light being or like a huge ball of plasma, but it was alive. And it was so much more powerful than me. I was severed from my body.

And all the other encounters I’d had, this angelic being took me and I was always connected to my physical body. But the first thing that happened was a severing. And now I’m just not attached.

And inside of this angelic being, I was contained and like a pressure against my form, but it wasn’t uncomfortable. It was filling me with comfort, but I couldn’t move, but I didn’t want to move. And my form was still humanoid, hominid-like, but I was not of molecules or cells.

I was a light separate from this being and I’m being carried inside of it. And it’s speaking to me this whole time, no language. It’s pouring, people call it the downloads.

It was pouring comfort and well-being and love into me. And I knew, because I could hear it inside of its comforting voice that was speaking to me, that it was a portion of the infinite itself. It was somehow this reduction of quantity, but of the same quality of the divine that I knew was where we were headed.

[Julie Jancius]

Like our souls?

[Peter Panagore]

Yeah, like our souls, but so much more powerful than me. And then the second time I died, and the angelic being also gave me a ride out of heaven. To come back?

To come back.

[Julie Jancius]

Okay, we’ll get to that point later on. Yes, I’m excited about that. Yes.

[Peter Panagore]

But the second time was only 10 years ago, last August. And I died in an ambulance of a heart attack, a widow-maker heart attack, full blockage.

[Julie Jancius]

What day?

[Peter Panagore]

I have to look. It was in August. I have it in my calendar.

[Julie Jancius]

It’s August 2015?

[Peter Panagore]

Yeah, I think so. Let me see here.

[Julie Jancius]

My dad passed August 5th, 2015 from a widow-maker heart attack.

[Peter Panagore]

Oh, mine was on the 22nd. Wow. But so 3% of people survive these, 3% to 5% survive a widow-maker heart attack.

It’s a full blockage. It runs in my family, killed my grandfather, killed my sister, would have killed my dad, but they life-flighted him back in the early 80s when, anyway. So this time, I die, and I’m in the ambulance, and I pop out of my body, and the same angelic being comes to me, but this time, for the first time, it’s speaking to me in the plural.

So it’s not like, I’m going to take you singular, or come with me. This time it was, we’ve been waiting for you. It’s time for you to come with us.

And it kind of rushed down toward me, and it was a singular entity, okay? But it was also like a multitude of singular entities all kind of mixed in together.

[Julie Jancius]

Yeah.

[Peter Panagore]

And I don’t really know how to explain it.

[Julie Jancius]

I see exactly what you’re saying. I see the cherubs that way sometimes, and I see the seraphim angels that way sometimes. So that’s very interesting.

[Peter Panagore]

That’s really interesting. You’re also the first person to talk to me about seraphim and cherubs, which I find fascinating because I’ve been reading about them in the Bible for the whole of my career. So this entity comes to me and says, we’ve been waiting for you, and I’m excited.

Okay, so the second time, I’ve been waiting for 40 years to die and praying for it every day, asking to go home. And this day, I’m going. And so I’m leaving, and instead of enveloping me, it comes alongside of me.

And for the first time ever with it, we parallel, we kind of hold hands. I had no hand, okay? But it was as if we were holding hands and exiting this world.

And then I thought to myself, well, I’m not sure my family’s ready for me to leave yet. And I turned around and went back inside. And that’s part of the story that I can tell you about later.

[Julie Jancius]

Wow. So I’d like to go in deeper too. You said, I asked every day to go home for 40 years.

What do you mean by that?

[Peter Panagore]

Oh, I chose to come back the first time I was offered to stay. And for my family’s sake, I came back. And I regretted it the very moment I arrived and was like, oh my God, I’m in this hellscape again.

And when I was dead, there was no suffering, no suffering at all. Healing, wholeness, wellness, bliss, paradise, beauty, all that stuff. And I had basically forgotten what it was like to be a human being.

And so I regretted the loss. I felt like I was angry for the longest time because as I was leaving, the divine said to me, I said, I choose to live my life. And the voice said, you’re not going to live your life.

And I’m like, what? And when I landed in my body, I was in a terrible situation. I was on an ice cliff.

I was frozen. I had frostbite. My feet were frozen.

I died of hypothermia. It’s the middle of the night. It’s old Canadian Rocky Mountains.

And so when I came back into the body again, it was full of pain. Like everything was on fire. And I was angry.

I felt like I’d been tricked, even though, you know, with wisdom and age, it was always my choice. Okay. And so for 20 years, not only was I studying mysticism and graduate degrees and all that stuff, but I was also practicing interior Kriya Yoga and Centering Prayer in order to go home because I couldn’t go back.

I wasn’t, I was told not to kill myself on the other side. Like, no, you can’t kill yourself. And so I had this prohibition against taking my own life, even though I was very depressed and suicidal.

I dove. It turned out that that was the thing that drove my spirituality. My depth of spirituality was entirely driven by my longing for home.

And so every day I would practice all my yogas and meditations. And also every day, pray to die. I’d be like, you know, take me home.

Today’s a good day to die. That movie, Little Big Man was out at the Dustin Hoffman. I don’t know if it’s an old film.

And one of the favorite lines from one of the characters was, today’s a good day to die. And from an old, old man. And it was always a good day to die for me.

And the second time I died, I was ecstatic. I was like, I’m finally going home. And I turned around and came back.

So there you go.

[Julie Jancius]

Okay. Before we tell your story, you just have to tell people two quick things. So you have studied so much of mysticism.

The angels have been calling me to look at the saints. And I don’t know if in your studies, you looked at the saints at all, but I want to know that. And then also, can you tell everybody what you did with your career kind of after you came back the first time?

[Peter Panagore]

Yes, the saints. I’ve studied the saints, East and West. And I’d be happy to steer whoever you’d like to be interested in.

[Julie Jancius]

Might have to have you back on again.

[Peter Panagore]

I’d love to come back on again. Talk about that. I love talking about that.

[Julie Jancius]

Yeah. Okay, cool.

[Peter Panagore]

So I was an English major, but I was working in construction because my dad owns an architecture firm and my sister was in graduate school for architecture. It’s a family business and I’m going to architecture school. But I came back and like, I can’t tear down the forest.

You know, little birds are my friends and the chipmunks are my buddies now. And so I changed careers and I went to study mysticism, but I come from a kind of an ambitious family, let’s say. So I wanted to be professional.

So I applied to some Ivy League schools for divinity school and I got into one of them. I ended up going to Yale and I studied mysticism under a three-year independent study with the Dean, who I never told why I was doing this, but she allowed me, and I’m still in touch with this woman. She’s like 93 and we talk every six months or so.

She changed my life. Anyway, so she allowed me this three-year independent study, found money in the university to hire me a professor for a semester, hire me a professor, like me, like two other people came and joined the class, but it was really… Anyway, so I studied mysticism, East and West for three years and in the process discovered tools.

I was looking for peers, like who in the world is like me? I can’t, I don’t know anybody who’s had this kind of experience and what tools are there to help me find my way home? So I went to divinity school.

I was going to get my graduate degree, doctorate and be a professor, but this Dean talked me into becoming a pastor for three years as an experiment, because I’ve been working with the homeless in New Haven. We’ve been running a soup kitchen and working with the homeless in the shelters. Anyway, so she talked me into this.

We got pregnant. We’re going to have a baby. I couldn’t go back for my doctorate, so I stayed in the church.

I was in the church for 18 years as a United Church of Christ congregational minister, and I chose that denomination because they were socially progressive and social justice oriented, ordaining women and all sorts of stuff long before anybody else. Anyway, so 18 years in there. Then I did 15 years on television.

I had a two-minute TV spot that I inherited on two NBC stations here in Maine with 30 million views a year for 15 years. It was crazy, and I had so much freedom and so much fun. I had two minutes every morning to tell an inspirational story, and then a corporation purchased our corporations.

We were a 501c3, sistered in since 1926. I was in the hospital for my second heart attack, and that was the end of my show. I wrote this book, and I was working in New York.

When I was in television, I worked in New York. I worked with Bravo and Hallmark Channel and Faith and Values Made and National Council of Churches and Christians and Buddhists and Baha’is and Reform Jews. It was incredible.

It was incredible. Now, I am a chaplain at the Maine State Maximum Security Prison.

[Julie Jancius]

We’re going to have to have you on multiple times because there’s so much to go into that you’re just this wealth of resource. I’m so glad that you’re here. I’m so glad that you just have given your life over to this.

I just want you to know that when it comes to the seraphim angels, when I work with them, the reason that I said that I see them kind of combining sometimes is because I call them seraphina and the seraphim. It’s like seraphina talks on behalf of them at some points, but they all operate together as one unit always. What they talk about is that there are different reasons that souls come to earth.

A lot of people talk about us being on the other side, raising our hand, asking God, universe, source for this lifetime, and then being granted this lifetime and coming. The seraphim say that other people were really asked to be here at this time because of the vibration of their soul, the consciousness of their soul, that they could play a part in sort of this beautiful tapestry of the earth’s collective human consciousness and that we were shown. I had one woman on the show who said something.

I was like, oh, I know that. I’ve seen that before. When the seraphim would come and ask, they almost hand you this orb, but this orb gives you everything that you need to know about your life.

When you hold the orb, you can see everything that your life experience is going to be. Then you say, yes, I’ll come or no, I won’t come to earth. I just wanted you to know that the seraphim tapped you originally before you even made this journey as a baby to be here.

[Peter Panagore]

So in my first experience with this angelic being, I was thrust outside of this sphere of into this infinite space and experienced wisdom and eternity and compassion, brought back inside, and then this vast darkness poured into the angelic being. There was sort of a barrier that the angelic being created between me and this infinite being who told me that I belonged to it, him, her, them, and that I had already made a deal that my lifetime belonged to the divine. And so I was five when that happened.

And then I was shot back to my body again. And then I went and I told my mom and I got in trouble for coming in the house. Yes, you’re one of the only people who’s ever talked to me about that.

[Julie Jancius]

Walk us through your first near death experience when you’re in your twenties.

[Peter Panagore]

I was in Montana on exchange at Montana State University, and I didn’t want to go home to Boston to be with my family. My sister had run away when I was 14 and caused all sorts of havoc in my family, emotional, psychological. And I was just like, I’m not going home.

So I found this guy who had his trip planned to go snow caving, backcountry skiing in British Columbia and ice climbing. And so we went on this climb together, which is why I was there. And I had rock climbed a lot and mountaineered a lot, but ice was my first ice climb.

And I chose to climb with an axe and a hammer because I was like, I was 20 and I can do this with the wrong equipment. And because I had the wrong equipment, my climb was twice as long as everybody else’s there that day. And so by the time Tim and I reached the top of the climb, it was already dark and temperature dropped about 30 degrees.

So we were in a terrible situation. We decided to fight our way down the mountain in the dark and terrible things happened along the way until we reached the place where we were, where I died. And when I died, we were about 100, 150 feet up.

The rope was stuck again. And we weren’t able to ascend to this time to bring the frostbite and hypothermia and everything else got worse and worse and worse all through the night. And it finally, it culminated in my falling asleep.

I went through other stages, but it culminated in my falling asleep. And I smacked my, I’d fallen, smack myself and wake up and pull on the rope. And then I stood up this one time and as I stood up, I got tunnel vision and this collapsing tunnel.

And as I was watching this tunnel collapse, when it went out, I thought, I’m going to fall asleep again, but I didn’t fall asleep when it went out. I woke up. I’m like, I’m awake now.

And I’m, so I’m awake. I’m half in and half out of my body. The mountain has disappeared.

And it was illogical to me because I felt like I was standing erect, but I knew logically I must’ve fallen over because I, you know, I’m asleep or cause I still think I’m asleep and, but I don’t understand what’s going on, but I’m half in and half out of my body. And then the same darkness appears. And so I see this darkness and I think, oh, something is up.

And then the angelic being appears and rushes across to collect me, plucks me out of myself, carries me across. And as it’s, as it carries me across this vast space back the way it came, I am in two places at once. I’m inside the angelic being, but I’m also outside.

And I can see, I’m like the eye of God seeing, I can see myself and I can see the angelic being, but when I look, I can’t see me seeing me, but I can see it from my inside. It’s, and so I’m in this duality. I’m in two places at once.

And then I, it travels back to this, this vast distance to like an edge. And at this edge, it either expanded or I popped out of it. I don’t really, that’s part of my, I can’t see this place and my NDE.

And then I was, I was in this gigantic galactic sized orb space and it was dark, but the darkness was simultaneously illuminative. So it was a, it was a visible darkness. And at the far edges of this visible darkness was a deep darkness into which I couldn’t see.

And I could see in every direction at once. And I was the size of our sun. I was this gigantic orb of, of plasma, but teeny tiny compared to this galactic space I’m in, but I was much bigger than me.

And in this, this knowledge of myself, where my thinking was my being, and my being was my, my, the structure of myself, no, no, no atoms, no quarks, no electrons. I am entirely something other, but in this other, Can you feel in that state? I felt peace and beauty and contentment.

I felt self possession. I felt self-knowledge. I, I knew myself as my own original self.

So I was in this deep space of, of, of content, of contentment and being alone in this space that vibrated with the presence of the voice of the divine through all that there was. And so I, I felt like me and, and that the, and that the me, the little Peter me that I had been never really had been me. That this, this is, this is my eternal nature.

And that, and that weirdly, I was always still this, it wasn’t like when I was in Peter, I was still this, this is what I’ve always been. But somehow I was forgetful and contained. And so I’m in this space, content, not lacking anything.

When the, when the deep darkness opens, splits open and out of the steep darkness pours the light. And it’s, it’s, it’s gigantic. You know, I’m the size of the sun.

Well, this is, you know, much, much bigger than me. And as soon as I see the light pouring out, which as people describe it, you know, if I had eyeballs, it would burn my retinas, but there was no pain. It’s pure beauty.

It’s the most beautiful, most seductive, most desirous that I’d ever seen. And so I wanted it. And in the instance of my wanting it, I was transported in front of it, like right to it.

So my, my thought was my action. And, and so it’s, this light is like physically radiating out toward me, but it’s also like this waterfall. So it’s all, it’s the weird thing is it’s paradoxical all the time.

It’s two things at once all the time.

[Julie Jancius]

How do you handle that?

[Peter Panagore]

Now?

[Julie Jancius]

Well, yeah, because as a human being, I think that that is something that we feel constantly is this paradox. I want something, but yet there’s reasons that I don’t. How do you make space for both things at the same time as a human being compared to that energy you were feeling on the other side?

That’s one of the hardest things that I think I struggle with.

[Peter Panagore]

I learned from all of my studies that the masters of every religion, the mystical masters of each religion, all practiced the same presence. And that’s the secret of it. The secret of it is not to try to understand it or to grasp it or to choose.

I choose only, I choose only the presence, the light itself.

[Julie Jancius]

You choose to be the paradox instead of waiting for one to be right or wrong.

[Peter Panagore]

Yeah, because they both coexist. It’s like super positioning. It’s two places simultaneously.

And if you just accept it, it’s just what it is.

[Julie Jancius]

Wow. Okay.

[Peter Panagore]

And the practice of it is the action of it. And so I learned about that as I studied, but to embody that was an entirely different process. One is reading books and understanding intellectually, and the other is the practice of being in the now.

And in the place of the now, when the attachment to the egoic self is reduced or eliminated in moments, then that paradox, just natural, the mystery with a capital M, just sits there. I don’t have to grab it. I don’t have to hold onto it.

I just have to enjoy being in the energetic presence of it.

[Julie Jancius]

And that’s it.

[Peter Panagore]

One of the reasons why I went into the chaplaincy is because I’d spent the last five years creating a wonderful community, online, global, international community of people, mystical experiencers, and teaching mysticism, East and West, and teaching the Yoga Sutras, and doing counseling. But it’s in the place of the human being experiencing the tragedies of life that I feel called. I tried to lean into the world.

When I first came back, I tried to live… I didn’t know what had happened to me. I had no one to talk about this to.

I’d never heard of such a thing. I’d studied some, you know, through my transcendentalist studies in New England, English literature, you know. I had an exposure to this kind of stuff.

But I was basically alone with it. And I tried to integrate into the world. And I found that that didn’t really work for me.

Because the world was this alien space now. And it wasn’t just outside of me that was alien. I was the alien too.

My physical form that I was living inside of and had always this consciousness of living inside of this shell.

[Julie Jancius]

Was it hard to stay in it? Because I’ve heard that from people in the past with near-death experiences, that it’s hard to be contained by the physical body because you’re so expansive.

[Peter Panagore]

Yeah, it’s had all sorts of different ways of expressing itself. But yeah, that’s for sure. I’ve had a whole bunch of other mystical experiences where I popped out of my body.

I’ve never tried to astral project. I just let… And this is part of what we were just talking about.

I try to let the presence be. And it’s so much bigger than me. What do I know?

I get this tiny little brain. I’m just, you know, in this time, space and on Earth, you know, in this little tiny planet. And this is the universe.

And the universe is bigger than the universe. It’s like, you know, 100 million universes bigger. So what do I know?

I just let it take me. But yeah, it’s popped me out of my body a whole bunch of times. I live sort of, like, in and out of time.

It’s like, I walk through these, like, I don’t know how to explain. It’s like, it’s like a super intensive deja vu, like a waveform passes through me. And I see just the future that’s just about to happen.

And I know that, oh, there’s that time shift again. Yeah, it’s… And plus, on the upside, through these interior practices, the radiance that came back with me has expanded to be this huge bubble in which I live.

And so now my displacement isn’t so much popping out of my body anymore, as it is in the space that I’m in all the time, all around me, doesn’t matter what’s going on, which comes around to, you know, your child is seriously ill. And I heard, I read between the lines about your fears and the causes for them. And I think the greatest blessing that I came back with is the knowledge that all is well, and all has been well, and all will be well for every single soul, live or die.

And that has given me courage that I can’t express to you, because the eternal light of every single living being is connected to the love itself, and therefore, no harm can come to it. And because of that, so, you know, I was talking to my son today. My son nearly died today.

Wow. Yeah, again, again. And he was on a job and this, a tire blew up.

And so this tire, this brake had overheated. And the owner of the truck was standing there, you know, and there’s smoke coming out of the brakes. And they looked at it, they ran their heads down, and they stepped away.

And two seconds later, a hundred thousand pounds of pressure exploded. We looked this up, you know.

[Julie Jancius]

Wow.

[Peter Panagore]

And they had stepped behind the truck and it blew out this way. And I was thinking about, I was thinking about children and death, okay? Because I saved his life when he was two months old.

I saved his life when he was two years old. He’s had other things where I wasn’t around where he was a miracle. So it’s, it’s being a parent with a child who’s ill or, or in danger.

It’s real scary.

[Julie Jancius]

It is. And it’s interesting that you say that because I went to the IANS conference in August, the near death experience conference. And what was fascinating, and I still have to have this woman on, but one woman told a story of being an infant and having a near death experience where she passed away and came back.

And it was her mom who was frantic, who was racing around. And that something happened when she was later, like about five, six years old, when it all came rushing back to her, where she was like above the room looking and she saw everything that her mom was doing. And that happened to my daughter when she was an infant as well, where she had a near death experience where she was gone and they resuscitated her and they brought her back.

And so I had like a big breakdown in that one. So I know exactly what you mean when you say your son was two and, and a newborn, you have those experiences. They change you for life.

[Peter Panagore]

They do. They do.

[Julie Jancius]

I’m so grateful to those who keep this show going through your support. Get three certifications in one and start your own business when you take the Angel Reiki School online or in person. You get both for the price of one when you register.

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Thank you again for supporting my work and the work of the angels. Now let’s get back to the show. Peter, I’ve got a question for you.

You know, I haven’t gotten to talk to many people about this and often when parents go through this, I find that both parents handle it differently. One makes purpose out of it and one just kind of needs to go within for a while. But what I found in my experience going through this lifetime with my 14-year-old is that when she came in to the world, she came in with a whole team of her own angels and her own guides and loved ones on the other side.

And they have taught me so much because I find it easier sometimes to access through other people. When you’re with yourself all day long, you’re hearing your own intuition. But when you’re with somebody else, you hear so much divine guidance for that person.

And I really credit her with bringing so much in when she was born. Did you find that with your son as well that through these experiences, I know you have your own experiences as well, but your son brought it to another level?

[Peter Panagore]

His birth was an entirely otherworldly thing.

[Julie Jancius]

Really?

[Peter Panagore]

Yes. And my wife was having 48 hours of back labor, second child. And so it was a work and we were in the small hospital, rural hospital, wonderful people, good staff.

And so they brought her into this room where it was like a dance studio. There was a bar, it was a birthing room, but it had a bar, like a ballet bar. And she was hanging onto this facing backwards with the midwife behind her.

And I slipped between the wall and the bar. And my poor wife, she was terrible, exhausting and all that stuff. And so I slipped between and I put my hands on her hands and she looked up at me.

And as soon as she looked up at me, my hands were on her hands, this huge energy came flying up through my feet and into my heart and into my hands. I watched her face go and surprise shot into her and he shot right out of her. Wow.

And then they’re all kind of, you know, the dog, the nurse, the midwife and the nurses, it was a doctor to it. And so they kind of collect her and I kind of slide out from the bar and I get out into the hallway and I just collapsed on the floor and I was down out. And so they put us both in a room together because I was, I was, I couldn’t move.

I was done. And so they put me in the bed, which they all joked about, of course, who’s the husband’s in the bed and the wife just had the baby. And so, and so he was born and the first time I hugged him, he had this like little golden orb of light in his heart.

And when his heart aligned with mine, it was like one goal orb of energy. It was like this beautiful little light inside of him. And he definitely came in with this extra thing because it’s different from anybody else I know, but he’s good.

Animals love him, for instance. So that kind of stuff. And he’s, he’s, he’s had a deeply powerful impact on the people around him.

[Julie Jancius]

Yeah. You know, I’ve been sitting and marinating on this. We’re definitely going to have to have you come back, but I want to know your take.

I think that being somebody who’s always loved and been around spirituality since I was a little girl, you just hear some things, read some things, see some things, and you just remember it. It’s such a truth to your soul that you just remember it. And you kind of start to live your life by it.

Like you were saying that, you know, like, you know, like, you know, that God has every single soul and whether they died and they’re on the other side and that is for a purpose or they’re here, everything has its place and every soul is taken care of. What other truths, I know that this is big and open ended, but I guess are you living your life by now?

[Peter Panagore]

I try to live my life by the presence, the light itself. And, and what that means is, to me, is that I’m always trying to clear my own self out of the way. I learned very young that the only one in the way between me and God is me.

And so the more I practice non-attachment to myself, the easier it is for me to function in the world. And, and, and it’s not, it’s not honey and, and cream with strawberries. It’s, it’s the real world of difficulties and tragedies and, and wonder and beauty.

And so it’s not a theoretical thing. It’s an actual thing where instead of trying to make a choose between left and right, when I’m trying to make a decision, I gather as much information as I can. I try to make the best decision possible.

But whether I do or not make the best decision, I’m always deciding for the light. And so, so this consistent line through my life is my interior journey to the oneness of being. And that is what is giving me the capacity to face all sorts of tragedies.

It doesn’t mean that I, when my sister died, I collapsed and cried. It’s not like I don’t, it’s like, it’s not like I don’t feel things I do. It’s just that it increases my remembrance of my own eternal nature.

And in that space of being, it makes everything less awful.

[Julie Jancius]

Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

Well, I think you said a couple of things in there. You have to give yourself permission to make decisions for the divine, and you also have to make decisions for the divine. I think that there are so many instances in everybody’s life that they could look back on where you say, wow, I was so stuck on making that decision.

I hemmed and hawed on it for a year, for five years, for a decade, for 20 years, but I just needed to make a decision. And it feels like that’s when you’re running with life and running with God is when you just get all the facts, like you said, because when you get all the facts, I think your intuition activates and it goes, nope, nope, nope. Yep.

This is the path. It opens up a pathway and then choose. And I heard somebody say something recently that we should all be teaching children that you just want to make decisions.

You can always fix a decision. You can always make another decision later, but as long as you’re making decisions, there’s a momentum to your life. And I know that some decisions are harder to make.

If you’re choosing on a relationship or a move or a big job change, that might be a little bit different and take a little bit longer, but there are so many decisions we have to make every single day. So I love what you just said. And I don’t know if you want to piggyback anything off that, um, yeah, well, uh, uh, indecision is a decision.

[Peter Panagore]

It’s a decision not to make a decision. And so you’re still making a decision. It’s just an inverted one.

Um, and so I, I think it was in Boy Scouts. I learned, uh, make a choice, just make a choice.

[Julie Jancius]

Yeah. Yeah. I had never heard somebody say that, but I was like, dang, that’s so true.

Just make a choice. And then you could always fix it or make another choice.

[Peter Panagore]

You make another choice, get another choice coming down the way. So, um, and of course some decisions are bigger than others and, um, but you still got to decide. So that’s part of it.

But the real, the real, the real wisdom that I learned when I was in divinity school from, from East and West is that the practice and interior practice makes a huge difference. And I know it’s not for everybody. Not everybody can practice that way.

Um, but if you’re capable of having an interior practice and are consistent with it over a lifetime, it’s like investing a thousand dollars when you’re 20 in, in, um, uh, some stock in some little tiny company that then by the time you’re 65 has blossomed into the, this, you know, and suddenly you don’t have to worry about your finances anymore. Um, and it’s all because you, because you put this in and then you were consistently putting a little bit more in and a little bit more and a little bit more. The value of meditation is exponential.

It, it is, it’s, it has so many different layers to it in the physical world and the, and the, the biological brain world and in the spiritual world. Uh, the most, the most value for me is the presence itself and, and, and the cultivation of the space for the presence itself with a capital P is, um, well, if one knows that this is only a lifetime of many, and if one knows that one is, um, an eternal being, then it makes a whole lot of difference in how you live your life. And so the choices that you make, they’re not like, I’ve made bad choices.

Okay. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve made poor choices in my life, not here and there, just like everybody else.

Um, but it’s not the end game. It’s not, it’s not the end game. The thing that matters about the light is that that is the end game.

And so, and so I chose to, much to the chagrin of my parents when I didn’t go to graduate school in architecture and joined the family firm because the, the, the company was cooking at the point at that point. And, um, I abandoned it. Uh, I chose a different financial path.

I chose, uh, uh, uh, a different path altogether and I cobbled together a way to make a living. Um, and we, we had a good living with my family, but that’s all passing away to me. That is not like it’s totally impermanent.

Um, what’s permanent is the light itself. And, and after, you know, lots of people have awakenings. Um, and if you can cultivate that awakening, not like grasping at it, not like owning it or claiming it, but letting it enlarge inside you, um, then you’re, as Jesus said, you’re storing up treasure in heaven.

Yeah. And because you know, the rust and the, and the moth, as he talked about, uh, that’s real. Uh, that’s what, that’s my experience on the other side.

I’m sure it is for lots of Indy ears as well.

[Julie Jancius]

Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, tell everybody where they can find you, your work, your books.

You have a more recent book that’s out. Tell everybody which one that is. And, um, yeah, I wish it was more recent.

[Peter Panagore]

It’s it’s a heaven is beautiful. It’s 10 years old. Now it came out when I was in the hospital, but it is an audible international bestseller.

Um, and I have another book in the works. Uh, I’m waiting, I’m in conversation with my publisher. I’ve already written nine chapters, finished chapters, polished chapters.

They’re like really well, uh, polished, um, and maybe another 10 to go, but I’m at Peter Panagore dot love Peter Panagore dot love. And I do hold office hours now that I’m working in full-time in the prison. My office hours are smaller.

So it’s, uh, they’re fewer, but I do hold them for helping people primarily who’ve had, um, spiritually transformative experiences, uh, suicidality, um, life, life choices, things like that. But mostly I help people who had their mind and hearts blown open and don’t know who they are anymore, because that’s the, that’s what happens with NDEs and major spiritual transformations is you get blown out of the water. And the pieces that go back together again, aren’t the same pieces.

Some of the pieces are, but there are new pieces. And then there are pieces missing of who you are and figuring that out. It’s a big deal.

[Julie Jancius]

It is because it’s like an awakening is the opposite side of the coin from a dark night of the soul. Same coin opposite sides. Yeah.

[Peter Panagore]

Yeah, for sure. And St. John of the cross. That’s yeah.

You were talking about saints. He’s totally worth reading.

[Julie Jancius]

Ooh, okay. Okay. I’m writing that down.

Peter, before you go, um, would you mind just leading us in a prayer of gratitude for your son being okay? I’m so glad that he’s okay. Maybe for my daughter next week and just for all the children of the world, children go through so much and, um, yeah.

Is that okay?

[Peter Panagore]

Yes. And I’m going to take a breath or two before I begin, just for silence. So people know I’m silent.

[Julie Jancius]

Perfect.

[Peter Panagore]

I’m so thankful that he got out of the way today. Thank you for that. And for his friend who got out of the way to thank you for that.

And for Julie’s daughter and for Julie, as they face this surgery in the hands of this renowned best of the best surgeon and his team or her team, may they be guided by your hands. May their hands be your hands and may the light shine inside of her and inside of them. And we’re so thankful that you put the surgeon in their paths.

And for all the children of the world, for all of the children, young and old, your children, no matter who we are or where we are or what we think or believe or don’t believe, let your golden light inside every human heart, inside every living creature, shine with a brightness that illuminates the night, the dark nights of their souls, of our souls. And we thank you for that light and for the love that’s, that you are, that is unfolding and eternal and unconditional and everlasting. We thank you for welcoming us home.

Always give us peace and love. Amen.

[Julie Jancius]

Thank you so much, Peter. Definitely have you back on. I’ll have my people reach out.

Thank you so much for your time and just being here this evening and for all the amazing work that you do in this world. So grateful.

[Peter Panagore]

Thank you, Julie, and peace and blessings upon you and your family.

[Julie Jancius]

Friends, I need your help reaching as many people as possible. If you’d like to support this podcast and help us spread more hope to the world, please book a session with me, join my angel membership or take my angel Reiki school. What’s the difference?

If you’d like to know what messages your angels and loved ones have for you, you’ll want to book a session with me. The angel membership is all about your own personal spiritual healing. The membership takes you on a spiritual journey that teaches you how to create your own heaven on earth.

And the angel Reiki school is for those who want to get certified in mediumship, angel messages and energy healing all at once. These are three ways you can help us share a message of hope and love with more people than ever before. Register for one or all three at theangelmedium.com.

That’s theangelmedium.com. Now let’s pray together. As we do, I want you to pray in a way where you feel as though everything you want for yourself and the world has already come true and you’re giving thanks.

Why? Because this is the best way to manifest. So let’s begin.

God, universe, source, thank you. We’re so grateful that you’ve blessed this world with calm and peace for all. This calm and peace has spread like ripples, soothing the hearts of every soul.

Thank you for opening our hearts to abundance, allowing each of us to live our most authentic life and helping us to create our own heaven on earth. We thank you for the love and deep heart to heart connection that surrounds us every day in our relationships. We thank you for the abundance of health and aliveness we feel radiating from every cell in our and our family’s bodies.

Thank you for the gift of walking this life with us and guiding us every step of the way through your messages. We hear you through our own intuition and we feel you walking right by our sides and we overflow with gratitude. Thank you for financial abundance and abundance of opportunities and miracles and blessings and prosperity in every way.

We know that you want us to succeed so that we can show others how you want them to succeed too. Thank you for the boundless love, kindness, empathy, and compassion that binds us all together. Thank you for the laughter, fun moments of pure delight that fill us every day, especially today.

God, universe, source, thank you for blessing us beyond measure and allowing us to use our souls, gifts, talents, skills, and abilities to serve the world. We love you. I love you.

And in this we pray. Amen. Friends, we’re working on some pretty major things over here.

And if you wouldn’t mind saying a little prayer that these things come to fruition, if they’re God’s will, we’d so appreciate it. And please add a little prayer in for any specific thing you need right now to have a beautiful blessed day.