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In this soul-nourishing conversation, I sit with the radiant Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail to explore how God crafted us from pure joy—not judgment—and why so many of us still battle self-hatred. We dismantle toxic theology, expose the dangers of Christian nationalism, and reclaim women’s erased leadership in early Christianity. Lizzie shares profound insights from her book God Didn’t Make Us to Hate Us, teaching us the ‘spiritual discipline of joy’ even in grief or political chaos. If you’re weary of fear-based faith or longing to reconnect with divine love, this episode is your balm

TIMESTAMPED OVERVIEW

00:00 Julie’s Personal Journey & Podcast Mission

01:24 Introducing Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail

02:30 Core Question: “God Didn’t Make Us to Hate Us”

03:23 God Created Us Out of Joy (Not Wrath)

05:24 Lizzie’s Role as an Episcopal Priest Explained

07:17 Women’s Lost Leadership in Early Christianity

11:18 Systems Change: Reform Inside/Outside Institutions

16:03 Julie’s Mid-Episode Offerings & Announcements

21:25 Defining Christian Nationalism vs. True Christianity

25:40 Historical Parallels: Printing Press to Internet Age

30:29 Sin as Disconnection & Imperfection

33:38 Lizzie Reads from “Hell on Earth” (Book Excerpt)

39:30 Spiritual Discipline of Joy Amid Despair

52:07 How Service & Connection Cultivate True Joy

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TRANSCRIPT:

Julie Jancius [00:00:00]:
Hello, friends.

Julie Jancis [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Angels and Awakening podcast. I’m your host, Julie Jancis. If you love this podcast, please be our angel. Ask a friend to listen. Subscribe, Rate us five stars, leave a positive review and share a screenshot of this podcast on your Facebook or Instagram Stories.

Julie Jancius [00:00:23]:
So my dad passed away in 2015.

Julie Jancis [00:00:26]:
When we weren’t talking, and it took a month for his family to track me down. Before I ever knew he was gone, I started hearing from him in heaven. It consumed me. How is communication with the other side even possible? I left my corporate gig, studied with spiritual teachers on every coast, and worked with my angels to figure out the answers. Today, my mission is teaching you how to raise your vibration, shift your thoughts, trust your intuition, develop your unique spiritual gifts, and connect with your loved ones and angels on the other side. Friends, when you have these tools, life really does become heaven on Earth.

Julie Jancius [00:01:24]:
Hello, beautiful souls. Welcome back to the Angels and Awakening podcast. I’m your host and author, Julie Jancis. And friends, I have to tell you that I was scrolling on social one day and I came across this woman and her account. And normally I have people on who have a new book out, but I feel like spirit just pulled me into this account. Maybe you’ve seen her yourself. Reverend Lizzie McManus Dale. And when I saw her, I was like a.

Julie Jancius [00:01:59]:
There is no one on earth like her. She is just so beautiful and such a ray of sunshine. And thank God for you because you just tell it like it is and you just put such goodness out into the world. And lo and behold, you do have a book which I love the title of. God Didn’t Make Us to Hate Us. Hello. I think we all need that right now. Welcome to the show, Reverend Lizzie.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:02:30]:
Oh, my gosh, what a treasure and a delight to be here. Thank you. Thank you for such a kind welcome. Thank you for your kind words. Thank you for speaking for and amplifying the voices of angels. Like, what a joy to have this conversation with you today. Yay.

Julie Jancius [00:02:46]:
Well, I want to start here. So there’s so many things that I want to dive into, but God didn’t make us to hate us. And yet so many of us have this huge egoic mind and just these thoughts that come in where we’re constantly in a state of worry, doubt, anxiety, beating ourselves up internally. And how do you see this? I mean, God didn’t make us to hate us.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:03:18]:
Why.

Julie Jancius [00:03:19]:
Why are we here? You know, what is. How does God see it?

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:03:23]:
So one of the central beliefs that I have that is actually like, Very ancient Christian belief. Not that you will ever see this on a billboard unless I can get my hands on one. So that’s like, low key, a dream. Let me just state that here to see if that comes true. But is that I think there’s this sort of bad theological take that feeds negativity that says God is like this cruel master clockmaker, or God was this vindictive, mean dude in the sky guy who, out of boredom and wrath, made human beings. But actually, the far more ancient belief in Christianity, the belief that we hold in Scripture, that we hold in our prayers, is that God made us out of joy. Like, God does not need human beings. God is complete in and of God’s self.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:04:13]:
God desired. It was God’s good pleasure to create every single person listening, to create every single person who has ever lived, every single person who will live, and to thread us together in this beautiful web of connection and this beautiful kindred, this beautiful family of God. And so actually, when you start with looking at the world and looking at us and human nature and even all the terrible things that happen interpersonally and internally, if we start with this posture of looking for the joy of God in us and around us, it can completely rewrite all of those scripts and helps us see that God is at work even in the most despairing of times and places. And I think that that is a message that we need to hear for the inner critic. And also in a world that feels very bitter and divided.

Julie Jancius [00:05:15]:
Yeah, 100%. Do you have, like, a certain denomination that you’re from? What is that?

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:05:24]:
Yeah, yeah, I’m an Episcopal priest. So if you’ve ever heard of Episcopalian, sometimes people are like, pescatarian, only eat fish. No, Episcopalian, that genuinely. That was a joke I made, and then it really happened to me. Yes. So the Episcopal Church, there’s a lot of parallels. So ways to sort of see us. If you watched Meghan Markle and Prince Harry’s wedding, our former presiding bishop preached, Michael Curry.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:05:53]:
We are very similar in our, like, structure. If you walk into an Episcopal service, it feels a lot like Catholic mass, but you might see a queer lady up there leading. And I am a priest, but I can be married. I have children. I have two beautiful daughters. And so we sort of stand in this. This funny and beautiful bridge, this middle way. The via media is like a big phrase we use.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:06:17]:
It’s Latin for, like, the middle way between Protestantism and Catholicism. But we’ve been around for a really long time. So this, this expression of Christianity really has ancient ro has at least sort of explicitly about 600 years of history. So it’s been around a minute.

Julie Jancius [00:06:34]:
Well, because when you see, like, your social media. What do they call this? Like, the collar? Like, the collar?

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:06:40]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there’s, like, different kinds. So this is technically called a tab collar or a Roman collar, which is funny because it actually was invented by a Presbyterian. And then I have the Anglican collar, which is the full round collar. Or my. When I’m very fancy, I wear my tonsure collar, which is like the band, which, I mean, really, it’s like, what’s comfortable? And for me, the Roman collar is, like, more comfortable because it’s more cloth around my neck instead of, like, a big circle of white plastic. But it’s all actually based off, like, the Elizabethan ruff. So, like, you know, like Shakespeare with the big.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:07:17]:
Yeah, so it’s. But it symbolizes being yoked to God and being yoked to God at all times and in all places. And so it’s not like I sleep in this, but whenever I am working, I wear a collar. So you. You know, my funny story is actually on Ash Wednesday, we had a little bit of a childcare snafu. So Ash Wednesday is when you see the ashes on people’s forehead. So I was administering ashes, and I had to go get formula and diapers for my baby. And I, like, walked in, I had the full cassock, which is like the big billowing black robe, ashes on my forehead, running to the local heb to get formula and diapers.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:07:53]:
And the checkout person was like, who is this crazy lady? I love it. I love it.

Julie Jancius [00:07:59]:
Well, you know, they should sit you down when you’re younger and be like, okay, this is what Catholic is, right? Episcopalian is. This is what, you know, Christian, Protestant, all of them are, because you don’t know. And I know that. Just sharing this story, I’ve come across so many women who have felt the same way. I grew up going to Catholic school very young. I can remember being around third grade, being in class where the nuns asked, you know, what do you want to do when you grow up? And I thought, well, I’m going to work for God. The only thing I could imagine was I was going to be a priest. And I was told, well, the nun knew something.

Julie Jancius [00:08:43]:
She had an intuition. And she goes, well, you can’t be a priest because you’re a woman. And then I said, well, I’ll be a nun. And she said, if you’re a nun, you can’t have a family. And I knew, even in third grade, I knew I wanted to have, I thought I wanted two, but we had one. And she’s amazing. But it stopped me as a young person thinking to myself, like, well then I don’t have a job working for God. And I, I stopped kind of trusting my intuition a little bit in that moment.

Julie Jancius [00:09:20]:
Women in leadership positions in the Catholic Church almost non existent. I know there’s so much good about the last Pope. I wish he would have done more to pull people, women into leadership role. We’ve seen over the last couple of years. What is the B word? Is it the Baptist church that has really come down hard on churches who have female leadership? And so I feel like, you know, we’ve almost created as a society this structure where women do feel called to lead spiritually and we need an outlet for it. So it almost kind of gave birth to this new age, what they called like the 90s and the 2000s, like the new age movement, which really caught on and there’s so much healing work in there. But then you have these documentaries that come out about people who take it to a crazy extreme.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:10:27]:
Right, right, right.

Julie Jancis [00:10:28]:
And I.

Julie Jancius [00:10:28]:
And there feels like a bit of a lack of safety and security, that you just can’t trust anyone. But in the same way you can’t trust every Catholic priest, so, or, or.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:10:40]:
Any clergy in any denomination. I mean, there’s abuse of power is everywhere.

Julie Jancius [00:10:46]:
Yes. Having the wisdom, the historical background knowledge that you do, how do you see this and how do you see, you know, we’re at a pivotal moment in history, we need a change moving forward. Do you see their change being made in the Christian Catholic Church of bringing in female leadership? Or do you think more on that spiritual side, it’s going to just have to evolve there.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:11:18]:
Oh my gosh, what a rich question. Because the deepest truth, I feel is God is always going to find a way to call and equip people whom God has made and equipped to be leaders in institutional and counter or out of institutional ways. And this is, this has been a question in Christian faith and really, I think in all religious expressions and traditions. But the one that I’m going to speak to is mine. Right. This is, this has been a reality since the beginning of the church. So women. There is archaeological, sociological, historical evidence that women served in ecclesial leadership, meaning they were deacons.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:11:59]:
Priest is actually a designation that comes along a little bit later. It’s diaconia and episcopal in the Greek, so deacons and bishops in the early church and eventually they’re like, okay, we need one more. And the priest comes along. But women served in these leadership roles, like in Scripture. So actually, in the Book of Romans, chapter 16, St. Paul, the apostle Paul is saying he’s doing a whole list of greetings. And he says, like Deacon Phoebe, which is a ecclesial leadership turn. It’s like saying, pastor, Reverend Father Phoebe is carrying this letter.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:12:33]:
Listen to her. And so the people who carried the letters, which are the epistles, the letters in the New Testament, so the First Corinthians or Romans, right? The people who carried those letters were the first preachers. Like, she would have read that text to the church in Rome, which is now the Vatican, and preached on it, exposited upon it, and shared. This is what Paul meant, a sermon, right? And so we have that evidence in Scripture. We have that evidence in early churches. And what happens is a lot of things. One sin, right? People are always going to abuse power in religious and sacred institutions, not because those institutions are inherently flawed, but because I think people are inherently flawed and grab power and say, well, some people get to have this power and some people don’t. Especially because in the ministry and life of Jesus, he was so attentive to the outcast, to people on the fringes, on the margins, who did not have any kind of center of power, even as he was already on the fringe of the empire, the Roman Empire.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:13:36]:
So his ministry was incredibly radical. And after a certain point that starts, I mean, it was so threatening, it got him killed. And it was also so threatening in the early church that in the first 300 years of the church, Christians were being persecuted, you know, ergo, gladiator era. But then under Constantine, Christianity is no longer illegal. And so the church starts to join forces with the empire. And in that moment, we start to see when there’s this institutionalizing of power, there is a steady and deliberate removing not just of women from leadership, but the record and the visibility of women from leadership.

Julie Jancius [00:14:14]:
Catholic nationalism of the past.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:14:17]:
Well, it wasn’t just Catholic. There’s orthodox. There’s a whole. You know, it’s everybody together. But the thing is, it’s like, this is part of why I tried to tell these stories is it’s like. It’s not like women woke up in the 70s and we’re like, turns out I might be a real person. You know, we have always navigated and negotiated power. And there’s women all throughout time.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:14:41]:
I think about in the 12th century, Hildegard von Bingen, who is this nun who founded all these Abbeys. She was a doctor of the church in her lifetime, which means the Pope was like, yeah, y’ all gotta listen to this lady. She went on preaching tours, which she was not supposed to do, right? Women have always found ways because God has always called us to serve. And I think this tension is, like, really critical for any kind of social change of, like, is it going to happen in the institution? Like, is it going to happen in the church, or is it going to happen in this new age spirituality outside of the church? And my answer is yes, both. And actually, I have a lot of training in systems change theory, which is like, looks at things like the civil rights movement, looks at things like the feminist movement and says, how did this happen? Right? Because I think sometimes we can take for granted this sort of shallow narrative that, oh, women woke up in the 70s and were like, I should have my own credit card. No, There were people within the institution steadily working, making compromises, not getting the full power, not getting everything that they negotiated for, probably from the outside looking in, looking like traitors to the movement, looking like they were, you know, wheeling and dealing and siding with the wrong person. And there were people from the outside, the sort of rat, radical, you know, outsider liberals, whatever, saying, no, no, no, no, no. Like, listen, the institution has to change or we are going to come in and take over.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:16:03]:
I mean, that systems change. It’s like there’s inside and outside forces and within Christianity, you know, Mary Magdalene is at the tomb when Jesus comes out of the tomb. In all four gospels, all four gospels say it was women who were the first witnesses and preachers of the resurrection. And there is actually new evidence that’s come to light in that Mary Magdalene was sort of systematically diminished in copies of scripture, specifically copies of the Gospel of John. Right. Because people would handwrite the Bible, like, it’s not like they had a printing press. So they would hand write it. And that was the copy that was passed on.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:16:40]:
And the earliest manuscript we have of John, a woman who had had a dream about Mary Magdalene visiting. Her name is Elizabeth Schrader, looked it up and realized someone had crossed out Mary Magdalene and written Mary and Martha. So someone had literally was like, Mary Magdale getting too powerful. And there’s this question of, like, was she this kind of outsider or insider? And like, we see that right there in scripture. And so I am clearly an institutionalist. Like, I am a priest. My. My everyday job is visiting people in the hospital.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:17:12]:
I’m cooking dinner tonight to bring to a parishioner who’s sick I. I have a very, you know, boring. I mean, it’s not boring to me, but like, very sort of normal pastoral life. But I also feel so much of what I have seen being in places outside the institution, in these more spiritual spaces, has so much to offer us inside the institution, but also so much of what I experience within the institution offers that exact thing you were talking about, this net of safety. I had to undergo multiple psychological background checks and evaluations, and there’s boards of people who oversee me. So if someone ever were to have a complaint, there’s a whole system of checks and balances that people can go to of people who have power over, like my paycheck, right? To say, let’s keep our kids safe. Let’s keep people safe. So there is a whole institution of structure and support.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:18:09]:
And I’m not saying it’s perfect because it’s not. I mean, it’s really not. But we are striving to be a place of genuine safety and a place that learns when we aren’t safe. Right?

Julie Jancius [00:18:20]:
A hundred percent beautiful souls. This has been one of the hardest years, and we’re still kind of in the thick of it. And I just wanted to take a moment and say I thank you so incredibly much to everyone who financially supports my work. Truly, I could not do this work without you. And I am so, so beyond grateful. For those of you who do want to support my work, I do have a new sacred Women’s Circles. They’re all beginning, all of the circles August 1st. You can now sign up on my website, theangel medium.com then go to the women’s Circles.

Julie Jancius [00:19:03]:
T Also, friends, I just read a report, and this isn’t to scare you. The Angels want to prepare you. This report has talked about how over the next decade, 33% of all jobs in the US could be eliminated and 47% total could be disrupted due to new AI technology. Again, this isn’t to scare you, but your Angels want you to be prepared. Friends, I was love, love, love to teach you the skills of being an angel, messenger, energy, healer, and medium all in one at my Angel Reiki School. If you’ve been feeling called to serve humanity or start your own healing business, please do not wait. This is your sign. Your Angels are trying to work with you on a whole new level.

Julie Jancius [00:19:59]:
Friends, a whole new Angel Reiki school begins online August 1st. And when you sign up this month for the online program, I’m g gifting you free tuition to also attend in person at any of the three to four in person Angel Reiki schools that we’re going to have over the next 12 months. They’re always held in the Chicago suburbs because takes a few carloads to get all of the materials, massage tables that we use over there. Friends, the Angel Reiki school certifies you in all three modalities at once, giving you a really unique, unique edge. Also, friends, one more thing. If you love this podcast and want to support me, we’re starting a whole new course August 1st in the angel membership. It’s called Release fear and step into your power. You can sign up for the sacred women’s circles, Angel Reiki school and the membership all on my website, theangel medium.com.

Julie Jancis [00:21:03]:
If you want more info, use the.

Julie Jancius [00:21:04]:
Contact form over@theangelmedium.com to submit your question. I read all of them and from the bottom of my heart, friends, I can’t thank you enough.

Julie Jancis [00:21:15]:
Thank you for being here.

Julie Jancius [00:21:16]:
Thank you so much for supporting my work. I truly couldn’t keep all of this going without you.

Julie Jancis [00:21:23]:
So thank you, thank you, thank you.

Julie Jancius [00:21:25]:
Now back to the show. So much to dive into here because I just want to say, like, we’re. I don’t want to get like political on.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:21:38]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha.

Julie Jancius [00:21:40]:
I believe that there should be like a two party system. Oh, for sure.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:21:43]:
Yeah.

Julie Jancius [00:21:44]:
But the extremism in the world is very overwhelming.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:21:50]:
Well, it’s terrifying.

Julie Jancius [00:21:51]:
It’s genuinely terrifying. Yes. And you know, I think what is so hard is I have family members who like will just call me and, and they’re what I used to call as a kid a gully cat. Gullible person. Right, Gully cat. So they will call me and they’ll be like, did you see this? And did you see this? And did you see this? And did you see this? Of just like, did you know that you’re supposed to eat salt before you drink water? And this person said, you’re supposed to drink this before you eat this. And you’re not supposed to drink any water while you eat. You know, there’s just such little things and there’s so much online that people are inundated with information to begin with.

Julie Jancius [00:22:36]:
And I think that our parents and our grandparents generation, to a point was used to, oh, if this person is up talking on screen, then they know exactly what they’re talking about. They’re the expert. We need to listen to them. And there really isn’t a huge level of discernment anymore in that there is a Christian nationalist movement. I think some people hear it and automatically think, well, Christian equals good. Yes, Break down for people. What is Christian nationalism? How is it different from Christianity? And how is it taking people and kind of using their innocence in a way?

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:23:26]:
Oh, gosh, yes. So Christian nationalism is inherently antithetical to the ministry, witness and life of Jesus Christ. But it is especially pernicious, it is especially dangerous because it takes some of the dressings of Christianity, some of the sort of, you know, lingo, the words that we say, the buzzwords of Christianity and the practices of prayer, and genuine, also expressions of faith like genuine, genuine adoration of God, genuine fears and concerns that I think any normal person has and says, this is the answer. And the answer is not love your neighbor as yourself. Pray for those who persecute you. Love your enemies. Blessed are the meek. Which, by the way, are all things Jesus says over and over and over in the Bible.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:24:24]:
The message is there are clear and present enemies among us whom we must, in our might and power, root out and destroy, because that is what God called us to do. And the method by which Christian nationalists say we will root out and destroy these enemies is by aligning everyone under one way of thinking, one ideology, under one way of speaking, one way of praying, one way of thinking, one way of voting, one way of teaching in public school, one way of thinking who belongs and who is in and who is out and says, we are going to align everybody in that. And that is how we glorify God and anyone who is counter to that. So says Christian nationalism is not only counter to our message, but counter to God. And that is incredibly dangerous because it takes the genuine desire people have to follow God. And let’s be real, even without part of the current moment we’re in is we have had a technological revolution with the Internet. It’s exactly like you said. And there are a lot of parallels to this, frankly, to 500 years ago when the Protestant Reformation happens.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:25:40]:
There’s the invention of the printing press, and all of a sudden books go from being this, like, incredible luxury item that, like, literally less than 1% of the population had. Like kings and aristocrats had books. Right. Like, if you could read, you were probably part of, of 1 to 3% of the human population.

Julie Jancius [00:26:02]:
Wow.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:26:03]:
Especially in Western Europe. Right. And so all of a sudden, books can be printed in a really fast and efficient way. I mean, we do it faster and more efficiently now. But compared to handwriting, Right. And all of a sudden, literacy rates go up. More people not only are reading, but can publish things. There’s less vetting of what gets published now, there’s some power to that, there’s some democracy to that because we have to remember when we’re studying history, were studying what 1 to 3% of the human population thought was important.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:26:32]:
Which leaves out, by the way, 99 to, you know, 97% of what people were doing. Right. Which is also where incidentally, like thinking about women in power, it’s like you gotta remember women were in leadership, but did they always have access to literacy or did they, were their records kept? Right. Because was that Inconvenient to that 1% of power, people in power. So all of a sudden, 500 years ago, everybody can, well, not everybody, but a lot more people can speak, start reading. And there’s all of a sudden you see all of this religious emphasis, like in the Puritan movement of reading sola scriptura, read the Bible for yourself, keep a journal, rigorously self examine what you’re thinking. Which means we have this explosion in resources for us now to look back on and what people were thinking. But it’s the same kind of thing where all of a sudden everybody has more access to information, which can be beautiful but can also also be devastating in terms of its consequences.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:27:24]:
And so I want to be clear, the answer is not only allow some people to have information, but what is happening now is we have the Internet, which is a parallel process of like just this explosion of information, this incredible access. Here you and I are, we’ve never met in the flesh, having this incredible conversation, connecting with people who will never meet us, having this conversation made possible by radio plus Internet, right? But the flip side of that is it’s terrifying, right? Like I think about that Bo Burnham song, which you like a little bit of everything all of the time. And that’s the Internet, it’s like it’s bottomless, right? And so inherently I think when there’s just this sort of endlessness, this like abyss that we stare into, which like every time we open our phones and we start doom scrolling, we are staring into an abyss and some level of our body mind connection is aware of, of that, right? Like some part of us is clocking, like this is bottomless is terrifying. And it’s also terrifying because stories that have not had the mainstream platform to be told are starting to be told, which is powerful. That’s why we have the Black Lives Matter movement having this like, you know, major national front page news, except it’s even funny to say front page news like newspapers, lol. Right? There’s this, this just incredible information inflation and so It’s a totally human thing to be like, wait a minute. I would like a smaller world. My world is so big.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:28:52]:
And I actually think about this. My mom said this to me once, and it was the most wise thing. I was thinking about enforcing boundaries for my baby when she was really little, and I was, like, trying. She was, like, big enough that I really needed to start saying, like, no and meaning it, but not big enough to really understand what that meant. And my mom said to me, she’s like, honey, her world is so big, boundaries make it smaller and more accessible. And so that is, like, it’s not a bad thing to desire that. What is a predatory and bad thing is for people in power to see that they could seize upon one story and say, this is the only story, and this single story is going to save you from the abyss. And that is a huge part of what Christian nationalism has done, is it has said, eggs are too expensive, the job you used to work has been replaced by AI, and your neighborhood doesn’t look the way it did when you were growing up.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:29:47]:
And people don’t want to date you and everything. You know, the way we connect with each other is all through this weird tiny screen. We don’t really know how to talk anymore. So here’s the answer. Blame them and align with us, and that will solve all your problems. And Christian nationalism is predicated on white supremacy. It is predicated on patriarchy. I would even say on kiriarchy, which is pulling from a feminist theology term, saying, not just saying men are dominant, but people sort of lords and masters, so wealthy men of a very specific small social class, so that 1% are the dominant people group.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:30:29]:
And it’s using wealth and class and white supremacy to say, if we quote, unquote, go back to being great. If we quote, unquote, go back to the way things were before all this newfangled technology, before we were hearing all these inconvenient stories that make us question our privilege or whatever, then everything will be fixed. And that is a seductive but incredibly dangerous story.

Julie Jancius [00:30:56]:
And abusive.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:30:58]:
So abusive.

Julie Jancius [00:31:00]:
Yeah, yeah. You know, and this brings me to my next question. You talked about sin. I think that all decisions that we make lead us to a greater, greater form of consciousness and that we’re trying to become more and more love within ourselves. I didn’t used to believe in evil, but I do now. And I don’t believe in a hell. I do believe because of all I’ve done. Over 7,000 readings.

Julie Jancius [00:31:30]:
I stopped counting at 7,000. I haven’t ever seen anyone in hell. Right. On the other side, I see that we go through a karmic life review on the other side, and when we do, we have to not watch our lives on a TV screen. Spirit’s like, what would be the point of that? You lived it. You didn’t learn anything from it. Let’s teach you. So in that karmic life review, you have hop in to the souls of other people who experienced you.

Julie Jancius [00:32:04]:
So the more power you had, the more souls experienced you. And you hop into their consciousness, their being, and you experience how you impacted them. And I could see where that could be hell for some people, because going through that and if you caused a lot of harm, that that would be hellish to experience. But when I say I didn’t believe in evil, but I do now, I don’t believe that there’s like a devil that’s a separate entity, that’s like running around with horns and a tail, I see it more. So as we’re here to become more love. So the more giving self love, less thinking of others that we are. And obviously, you do have to have boundaries. There’s a situation that came up last week, and, you know, I had to enforce some boundaries, and it was really hard.

Julie Jancius [00:33:07]:
And people looked at me and were like, you’re a spiritual person. It’s like, yeah, but you do have to have some boundaries too. Yeah, but that evil piece is really only looking at yourself and making all decisions out of. Of your own self interest.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:33:27]:
Right?

Julie Jancius [00:33:28]:
Yeah. Where do you see all of this evil, hell, all of that?

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:33:33]:
Oh, my gosh. Could I pull a quote from my book? Is that okay?

Julie Jancius [00:33:36]:
Yes, I would love it.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:33:38]:
Okay. All right.

Julie Jancius [00:33:39]:
It’s so beautiful, by the way.

Julie Jancis [00:33:41]:
It’s just so you.

Julie Jancius [00:33:43]:
Like, the yellow is so cheery and happy and the beautiful pink flowers and the green. Every time I see the book cover, it just makes me so happy.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:33:53]:
Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. I. I love it. I wish I could take. I mean, I. I made like a little Pinterest mood board. But Sarah Horgan, who designed the COVID she just outdid herself.

Julie Jancius [00:34:04]:
I mean, it’s just amazing.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:34:06]:
Gorgeous. Okay, so I’m like.

Julie Jancius [00:34:11]:
And while you’re doing that, I just gotta say, every time you’re talking about the printing press, I. We’re Disney family. I love Epcot. And my favorite ride is where you go through the Epcot ball because you see time and just history and you see the printing press being made. And as a kid, we were like, oh, my God, we gotta go through this thing, but as an adult, you’re like, oh, my gosh.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:34:36]:
Yeah.

Julie Jancius [00:34:36]:
I mean, it’s so cool to see the history of it.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:34:40]:
Yes. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so I’ve got a quote. I’ve got a quote for us. Okay, so I talk about this pretty extensively in my book, actually. The whole fourth section is called the Great Hereafter. And each book, each section, I take a myth and a mystery and invite us into a mystery. So the myth here is that Christine is all about being saved from the eternal damnation of the fires of hell.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:35:04]:
And the mystery that I want to invite us into is Jesus spoke about the kingdom of heaven coming near and breaking in all around us. Perhaps Christianity is about helping us pay attention to God, interrupting and blossoming here on earth. And so in chapter 34, I just want to read a little bit of the introduction. This chapter is called Hell on Earth. If you took a drive in vast swaths of America and you knew nothing about Christianity except what you saw on billboards, you could be forgiven for thinking that the entire point of Christian faith, practice and belief is to be saved from hell, not the golden commandment of loving God and loving our neighbors as ourselves, not believing God chose to dwell in human flesh among us. Not the literal Bible verses that say, release all debts, feed the hungry, care for the most vulnerable. Just be afraid of hell in big, bold lettering. In popular culture, we hear more about the eternal fires of damnation than anything in the Bible and how hell isn’t even in the Bible, at least not the version we think of when we think of hell.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:36:17]:
The fire, the brimstone lil nas x descending on an enormous stripper pole to dance on the devil. Like 90% of these images are not found in the Bible at all. They largely come from works of Western literature like Dante’s Inferno and Milton’s Paradise Lost, which are great stories, to be sure, but they’re fiction. They’re inspired by the Bible but heavily influenced by the author’s agenda. We have also taken a lot of different Hebrew and Greek words from different parts of the Bible and joined them into what we think of is one concept of hell, but is actually quite a mishmash of ideas. For example, the King James Version, probably the most popular English translation of the Bible, despite its age and notable translation troubles, often translates both the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek word gehenna into English as hell. But if we look at the Hebrew word sheol as it’s used in the Old Testament, it’s more of a neutral term for the realm of the dead. It has a negative connotation in the sense that it’s a bummer to be dead, but it generally isn’t seen as a place where wicked people are tormented.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:37:20]:
I’m going to skip a little bit ahead. Gehenna, on the other hand, refers to the realm of the dead in the context of a real place on earth. We first meet Gehenna in the book of Joshua, where it is called by its Hebrew name, GE ben Hinn, the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, because it is a literal valley that marks a border between the lands of the tribes of Judah and the land of the tribe of Benjamin. But big content warning here for harm to children, Gehenna becomes the site of horrific trauma and cruelty when the kings of Judah burn their children alive as human sacrifices. There, as God says through the prophet Jeremiah, I did not command these children be killed, nor did it come into my mind. Therefore the days are surely coming, says the Lord, when it will no more be called the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter. By the time of Jesus, Gehenna came to be a kind of shorthand for a place of the dead, colored by an uneasy sense of human wickedness and divine judgment. And we too know what hell on earth is like.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:38:34]:
And I go on to talk about, you know, I think about, I have a lot of family who were in Manhattan on 9 11. I think about places of war and genocide. I think about places in our own lives where maybe it’s a certain drive or a place you, you went with someone who died or someone who you’re not in relationship with anymore. And it’s a place now of grief. Like, yeah, we do know what it is like to walk through hell on earth. And when I think about evil, I still don’t have a full answer to this question. I just know that there are forces of evil around us and I think the force of God’s goodness is greater. But that doesn’t mean that we’re done seeking that goodness.

Julie Jancius [00:39:27]:
Goodness, right.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:39:29]:
Yet.

Julie Jancius [00:39:30]:
Yeah. And it almost makes you wonder what is our role in being part of this new world that we are actively co creating just simply by being here. You know, I think that what we’ve already stated in the podcast is truth. There are people who want to take their agenda and want to get your mind and your heart and your energy and your nervous system on board with it.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:40:04]:
Yeah.

Julie Jancius [00:40:04]:
And so if we did look at sin and that piece of it, you know, in today’s day and Age, not being aware of all different sides and not getting to know people’s hearts and not being an active participant of this society.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:40:32]:
Right.

Julie Jancius [00:40:33]:
Where does that fall?

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:40:36]:
I think.

Julie Jancius [00:40:38]:
And with the caveat that, I mean, there’s only so much that you can take. I mean, I know all the spiritual tricks. I’ve had hundreds of hundreds of spiritual folks, experts on the podcast. I can use all of the tools and yet my nervous system feels completely. It’s getting better, but just. Oh my God. Completely zapped.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:41:00]:
Yes, yes. Okay, so I have two thoughts on this. And the first is this question of sin, which I realize I didn’t fully. You asked that and I wanted to circle back to, to. I have a chapter in my book called Eve’s Question which gets at this where I think sin is simply the fact of being connected in a disconnected world. Right. So I think about this. Great.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:41:29]:
Do you ever see the TV show the Good Place?

Julie Jancius [00:41:31]:
I love that show.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:41:33]:
It’s so great. So there’s a scene like several seasons in where the people who are in the afterlife are trying to negotiate with a judge to be like, hey, we were unfairly judged. We bought this tomato and we didn’t realize that we were making all of these decisions. Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she’s like, just buy a different tomato. And they’re like, you don’t understand. Like, if you buy this tomato, what you’re actually saying is rigged.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:41:57]:
It’s rigged. You support unfair farming practices, you support pesticides on plants. And she’s like, just buy a different tomato. And they’re like, you can’t, you, you cannot make a choice that is in a vacuum. Right. Is the whole point of it. And like, I honestly think that’s a beautiful explanation of sin. And like, I can try to be the most pure, ethical, just whatever, like, person.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:42:18]:
And I was born into privilege as a white bodied person. And also, even if I strive to not create suffering, suffering is still happening. And that is what I think of when I think of sin. And I find it actually quite cathartic to realize that striving for perfection is not what God desires of me. But I think this, this deeper thing that you’re getting at is like looking around the world being like, oh my gosh, like, I want to believe in the best of people.

Julie Jancius [00:42:46]:
Yeah.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:42:47]:
But are we like, are we cooked? Like, is this, is this it? Is this the apocalypse? Is this the end times one? I take a lot of heart that we have the literal word Apocalypse actually means reveal. It means unveiling. And so when Something comes to the end of its life, which I do think we are at the end of a life in America. We are at the end of an age. I would not say of innocence. I would say of willful ignorance. And some of us are getting, you know, the scales, like, peeled off of our eyes in a way that is brutal and painful. And some of us have.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:43:27]:
Have known this right for forever. Right. Some people are like, yeah, what’s happening in this brutally partisan, terrifying time is exactly what I was raised to be afraid of happening because it happened to my very recent ancestors. Right?

Julie Jancius [00:43:42]:
That’s what I was just gonna say, because I come from a long line of people who were just doom and gloom, like, it is coming. Jesus is coming back. It’s all right, right? In our lifetime. And I’ve got the proof. I’ve studied the Bible, I’ve looked at everything, the end times, and I’m like, no, we’re still gonna be around in 250 plus years, 500 years. Like, I do want to see, like, the good in it all.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:44:12]:
Yes.

Julie Jancius [00:44:13]:
So I like to push beyond that because.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:44:14]:
Right.

Julie Jancius [00:44:15]:
So many people just get, like, sucked into that.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:44:18]:
Yes. Oh, my God, no.

Julie Jancius [00:44:20]:
Like, I won’t take you there. No.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:44:22]:
Yes. Yes, exactly. And I think there’s this tension, right. Of the world has ended so many times before, Right? And sometimes that has been a necessary rebirth. When the American Civil War happened and the American system of slavery, which was an entire economic system that the entire country ran off of, like, do not be mistaken, that the union was some sort of morally superior, you know, Northerners didn’t. Northerners also benefited from the economic system of enslaving people, which was incredibly messed up. Right? That is a world ending. And so there’s this moment of, like, okay, we realized, some of us, that what was happening was wrong.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:45:04]:
Some of us, this just happened to us. How you do. How do we start to move forward? Right? And that’s a beautiful moment of reckoning and potential rebirth. Right? And that’s what I mean by. I think some folks have seen, have always known that the world is not a safe place because they did not experience the particular privileges of being white or CIS or able bodied. Right? And I think a lot of us are suddenly waking up to realize, like, oh, I. I took for granted my safety. I took for granted a sense that every institution is for my benefit and for the benefit of my neighbor.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:45:43]:
And I’m now realizing that unless I am an active participant in the storytelling of my community, someone else is going to take over and Tell a story for me that I’m like, whoa, hold up. No, I don’t co sign on that story.

Julie Jancius [00:45:54]:
Yeah, I got to add something on there when you’re done, please.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:45:57]:
No, no, no, no, please add it now.

Julie Jancius [00:45:58]:
Oh my God. So why. Okay, like I can’t say who, but I’ve been doing the like a ton of readings and for people who are active within politics and what is really, really fascinating is none of them know each other, but all of them are saying the same things, which are that on the Democratic side, people in high positions of power will look to their Republican peers and, and say, why aren’t you coming after me harder? Why aren’t you going after. And they said I don’t have to. Your own peers are eating you alive. So much inward fighting that they can’t get anything done. There’s also a lot of people who report. Not all, but there is a large population of men within the Democratic system who are very much for the patriarchy and position themselves outwardly as if they’re not, but inwardly are making decisions that are very anti female.

Julie Jancius [00:47:13]:
And it’s not easy. It’s. There’s a couple more things that spirit’s gonna bring back. But what I’ve been bringing through in reading so to just everyday lay people is God is calling you. Like God is calling you to use your life. And if you feel called to get into politics, oh, this is what it is. Most people, they would tell me think that people, politicians are very highly educated people and most are not. Most don’t have beyond a high school diploma.

Julie Jancius [00:47:52]:
Many, not most. There are many out there. And so there are a lot of people who think to themselves, oh well, I can’t get in, I can’t run, I can’t do anything because I’m not as smart or I’m not as talented or I’m not this. And what God has been coming through and saying to so many folks and private readings is just if you feel called to jump in, jump in. Because you know your posts every day on social media, 10 times a day, great. But you’re preaching to the choir and you’re not really in the game. If you really want to get in the game, get in and be active. And I really do believe in a two party system, if not three, like bring people more to the middle.

Julie Jancius [00:48:40]:
I think most people are good people. I think most people, most people want the same things. But you’re being told that there’s another side that doesn’t really want it. We have to find a way as beautiful, loving souls to come back together.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:49:04]:
Yes, yes. And I think that takes a discipline.

Julie Jancius [00:49:09]:
Of joy go into that.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:49:13]:
So I talk about this also in my book. I have a chapter called the Spiritual Discipline of Joy. And I think sometimes that can be a sort of disorienting juxtaposition. But I mean it to be because joy is not material happiness. Joy is not. I have, you know, X amount of money in my bank account. That means I’ll be secure forever. Like, certainly that can generate some joy, right? But it’s not about.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:49:35]:
About rancor or bullying gain that belittles someone else. Nor is joy about some sort of, like, I have enough stuff. Nor, I think even is joy actually about I feel happy all the time. Instead, I think practicing a spiritual discipline of joy is saying, I know that God’s goodness and God’s love is he, even when I don’t feel it.

Julie Jancius [00:50:03]:
Oh, that’s powerful. Say that one again for the people in the back.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:50:07]:
Listen. The spiritual discipline of joy is saying, I know that God’s love and God’s goodness is here even when I don’t feel it. And I would even add even when I don’t see it. And also I know that God’s goodness and love and beauty and mercy and wonder surrender is here in the face of the person who I have marked as my enemy. That is the spiritual discipline of joy. Because it says, I know to bring us all the way back, that God did not make us to hate us. God made us out of God’s joy. And I think the deepest desire of God’s heart is communion and community with us, but also within us, right? And so if we believe, and I do, like, look, I think there are definitely some folks out there for incredible greed and gain.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:51:05]:
And I think that comes from a place of deep, unhealed pain. I do think, though, that most people, if we were, I think all people deserve, deserve to flourish and to have joy. And I do believe that most people want the same things, even if we’re not always great at wanting those things for each other. I think that is part of the discipline of joy, right, Is saying, like, I actually can only have joy when everyone else has joy. And so this is a discipline not just of looking for God, but also looking for where I have denied God in some ways else by denying them access to the justice they need or the materials they need or the rights that they should have. And so I have to strive like, God’s justice and God’s joy are very much interlinked. And so it is both a practice of rigorous, like, self examination, perhaps especially when we are in the pit, you know what I mean? Like, when we are in the belly of despair, when we feel like nothing can go right, when we are deep in grief. I mean, I have someone who has lived through things of a lot, a lot of grief and a lot of incredible trauma.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:52:19]:
And, like, kind of every day I was like, do I die today or do I keep going?

Julie Jancius [00:52:23]:
Yeah.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:52:24]:
And, like, that’s the decision, right? Like, if we’re being so for real.

Julie Jancius [00:52:27]:
And they come back to you sometimes, like, because you seem so joyful. And I feel that too, because everybody’s like, you seem so joyful all the time. And there are. There are days that are very much a struggle.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:52:41]:
Oh, God. Yeah. I had horrendous postpartum depression with my first. And it was like, I didn’t think I was gonna see this kind of despair again. I lived in fear of seeing that kind of despair again. Yeah, right. Cause. Cause this is what I mean about discipline of joy.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:53:00]:
Like, this is not something that I say vapidly. Like, this is something it would be very tempting and very believable for me to say. There’s no reason to have hope. The world is messed up. People I love are all gonna die. There’s injustice in the world. There is suffering. Like, why would I kid myself? You know? Like, that’s.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:53:17]:
That’s the tempting, easy answer. But I think the discipline is saying no. And yet God is bigger than that, and God is still at work, and I’m going to look for that. And trust also that when I have scales over my eyes, God is very lovingly going to be like, no, baby, no, no, no, no, sweetheart, yeah.

Julie Jancius [00:53:35]:
Yeah, a hundred percent. One hundred percent. You know, I didn’t get to say this yet. I don’ Many TV shows where I’m like, you know, just. I don’t know what they call that. Just kind of like your fun tv.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:53:50]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Julie Jancius [00:53:52]:
But I watched the White Lotus this last season because Mike White said it was all going to be about spirituality. And I loved Amy Lou, like, the character. She was like, the most spiritual on the show. And in the end, and I’m sorry, tmi, if you haven’t seen it, I’m giving it away.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:54:11]:
That’s okay.

Julie Jancius [00:54:12]:
She dies. And I. I ruminated on that, and I thought about it and I prayed on it, and I, like, meditate on it. And I was like, what is this? And I came to the conclusion that a lot of people use religion and spirituality as a Way to find complete perfection, action that there is a point at which you can get to in your life where there is no more problem, no more worry, no anxiety. And yet that’s not true life. Yeah, true life is. We’re going to have down days. There could be a lot of days that are really down, but we are going to look for God in it.

Julie Jancius [00:54:56]:
We’re going to use the tools that we know. We are going to continue to pray, we’re going to continue to have that belief and that faith and that hope and, and find our way forward. And I’ll just add this in here too. I’ve. I’ve dealt with a lot of that downtime in my life. And the only thing that really shakes me free in a big way is thinking, like, how can God use me? Like, what can I do? What do people need? How can I be of service? How can I help?

Julie Jancis [00:55:29]:
Help?

Julie Jancius [00:55:30]:
And I think it’s because when you get out of your own cocoon and your own house and you reach out to other people, you just have conversations like this, like heart to heart, like you can feel God here in our conversation and, and you feel it in that connection and that community, in that love.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:55:54]:
So, yes, a hundred percent. I think, I think that’s why one of. I’m sort of developing, it’s still in progress and process. Like, what are the pillars of joy for me? Because I get asked this, I’ve done a book tour for God, didn’t make us to hate us. And almost everywhere I’ve been, people have been like, how do I have joy when the world is falling apart? First of all, baby, baby, I see you. What a tender and proud, precious like. And I mean precious like in the Southern, like, full bless your heart as a good way, like, as a, like, I love you. And I see the, the sort of big baby eyes in that question.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:56:33]:
And, and I, I have been there and I have felt that. And the best place, the only place that we cultivate true joy is when we have walked through the valley of the shadow of death, right? Which is not to say that without suffering there is no joy. But it’s like that is what you come out with on the other side is clarified. It is powerful and it is something that creates this cavernous space within you to give back. And I saw this quote recently that was the ultimate act of maturity is helping raise children. And it wasn’t saying giving birth to children or being parents, but rather that when we start participating in the life of caring for people who are children, right? And that can be as parents, or it can be as teachers, or it can be as aunties. It can be as people who care about your community and pay taxes for public school. When we participate in the life of raising the next generation is when we come to this full sense of healing and coming full circle with what was left loose from our own childhood.

Julie Jancius [00:57:39]:
Yeah.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:57:39]:
And I think that there’s a parallel to that that I haven’t quite worked out yet, but there’s something to this of, like, I have just seen so many people in grief. Like, that’s part of my job. Right. Like, as I am the person who walks into the house sometimes hours or minutes after there has been a death. Right. And sometimes there is. We’re still waiting on the mortician to arrive or the funeral home. And I am the person who sits there and holds someone’s hand.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:58:06]:
Right. And is just the presence when. When that grief is just like an eruption or it’s very quiet. Right. Sometimes people are still deeply in shock. But I’m also the person who says, how are we now going to name this moment in time and space for you and the people who loved this person who has died? And I have seen tremendous grief. I have seen things that I. I feel like I’ve lived through things that people say to me, I don’t know how you did it.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:58:36]:
I don’t know how you lived through that. I have also seen things being like, I don’t know how they look. Live through it. But I. I see that one of the ways that we start to make sense of our trauma is being able to tell a story about it with people who have not yet been able to tell their own story.

Julie Jancius [00:58:51]:
Yeah.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:58:52]:
And. And there’s some. There’s something to that, like, I don’t know, connection, I think, is. Is. Is God made us for joy and God made us for connection.

Julie Jancius [00:59:02]:
Yeah, yeah. And you’re almost to your point, like, walking through the valley of the shadow of death every day in some way, shape or form, form, and holding on to that discipline of joy at the same time. They’re not separate from one another. They go hand in hand.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:59:19]:
Yes, yes. I mean, that comes from Psalm 23, where the speaker says, you prepare a table before me in the presence of mine enemies. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. Your rod and your staff, they comfort me. The rod and the staff in shepherd images are. They’re tools. Like, there’s the crook that is used to, like, pull the sheep back to say, like, baby, don’t walk off the cliff now. Like, which I didn’t realize they actually.

Julie Jancius [00:59:49]:
Do, but they actually do.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [00:59:51]:
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And also the rod is the. Like, I mean, I’m not saying that like, I’m not here for corporeal punishment, right? But the rod is like, stay in line. Stay in line. And like to say that your rod and your staff, like, comfort me. The things that you have used to pull me through the valley of the shadow of the death as you prepare a table for me in the presence of my enemies. Like, all of that is imagery that is simultaneous in that psalm and that’s powerful. It’s like a powerful image of what apocalypse, of what revealing can be when we walk with God.

Julie Jancius [01:00:25]:
Oh, my God. Reverend Lizzie, I hope you come back on the show.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [01:00:29]:
Oh, I’d love to.

Julie Jancius [01:00:30]:
Amazing. Your book, God Didn’t Make Us to Hate. Hate us. Everybody just needs to get it and set it on their desk so that when you have negative thoughts, first off, you just see this beautiful be like image every day. But then you think, nope, God didn’t make us to hate us. Nope, God didn’t make us to hate us. Tell everybody where they can find you and your beautiful book.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [01:00:53]:
Oh, my gosh. Thank you. You can connect with me. I’m on all socials. Revlissy.com is my website and my book, God didn’t make us to Hate Us is available wherever books are sold. It’s a 40 day devotional, 40 devotions to liberate your faith from fear and reconnect with joy. And it is my love letter to each and every one of you. So I hope that you feel the love that I wrote it with.

Julie Jancius [01:01:15]:
Amazing. Amazing. That’s a wrap.

Julie Jancis [01:01:20]:
Beautiful souls. We have so many freebies to help serve you. Your family and friends want a weekly message from your angels, each emailed to you? Sign up on my website to receive a weekly message of love, hope and healing from the angels. Do you have a prayer request?

Julie Jancius [01:01:41]:
Go to the homepage of my website.

Julie Jancis [01:01:43]:
And submit your prayer request so that our team of prayer warriors can be praying for you daily. Want to learn more about the angels and energy healing? Subscribe. Subscribe to my YouTube channel called Julie Jancis to learn more about the angels, energy, healing techniques and so much more. One of the biggest things we hear from our listeners is that they have no one to talk to about their spiritual awakening. We created a private Facebook group called the Angels and Awakening Podcast Tribe so that you could connect with others like you and know that you’re not not alone. So be sure to join this group on Facebook to get the support you need. Want a free session? We plan to give away over 240 free sessions with students in the Angel School per year. To win a free session, subscribe and rate this podcast five stars.

Julie Jancis [01:02:41]:
Then write a positive review and email us a screenshot. That way we know who to contact when you win. Want to share your uplifting angel story on the podcast? Because we love sharing them, Please write down your angel story and email it to us. Don’t forget, be an angel and share this podcast with someone who needs it. See you back here next time for another episode of the Angels and Awakening podcast. Friends, before we go, I want you to take a deep breath in.

Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail [01:03:16]:
In.

Julie Jancis [01:03:19]:
Deep breath out. Again. Deep breath inhaling the pure white light and love of God making you feel weightless and filled with joy. And I want you to exhale all of the heaviness that you’ve been carrying in your Auric feet, in your chakras, in your body. Friends, no matter where you are in your life, your angels need you to know that you are so, so loved. Never doubt that you have big, big purpose here and now. What is your soul here to do? My friends, your spirit team is always working with you. You.

Julie Jancis [01:04:09]:
I want you to see and feel your heart chakra and your heart itself opening like French doors. I want you to see God and your spirit team sending you a multitude of blessings of abundance in health, wealth, happiness, love and peace. See all of those unexpected blessings filling your heart heart right now. My friends, your soul is love, joy, peace, bliss, ease and grace. And because that’s who and what you truly are, these elements can never leave you. They can never be taken away from you. And my friends, all you really ever have to do is just be. Be you and radiate the beautiful light that you are.

Julie Jancis [01:05:04]:
So go forth today and be an angel in the lives of others. Radiate your love and live in the high vibration of simply being.